The vaccine passport (QR code), a new debate.

[gallantca]

Well next time you are going for meatball, don’t forget that you might be serve by a disgusting unvaccinnated person without covid or even worst a flawless vaccinnated person with covid.
It is a fact, even vaccinnated people can catch and spread covid so what’s the purpose of the passport?
Free and fast covid testing is the way to go, that way you make sure that covid positive person (vaxx or not) are not in contact with others.

1) It's been proven meatballs are not a vector of transmission.

2) a - if a vaccinated and unvaccinated person enter a restaurant, the vaccinated has much greater chance of carrying vs the unvaccinated.
b - If a vaccinated person and unvaccinated catch it at a restaurant the vaccinated has 1/20th the chance of the unvaccinated of having to use a hospital bed.

You need to protect the vaccinated from the unvaccinated and you need to protect the healthcare system from the unvaccinated.

3) I agree testing would be preferable. In theory a person tested every X days could have an equivalent passport. However it doesn't solve 2b and the cost/scaleability of it is questionable.

 

[Halloween Mike]

Double-jabbed people carry same levels of Covid as unvaccinated (telegraph.co.uk)

By the way things are going in Israel, lots of peoples are vaccinated and yet it continue. Could be a decrease in vaccine efficiency over time, but does that mean you will have to take your "bi-annual booster shot" for the rest of your life lol.

Its always the fault of something base on the narrative of Legault. Spring break week, touristata, "edenté"(teethless), conspiracy peoples, students etc etc

I may have to go trough tougher time at first but if one day the population wake up when they realize there is still problems in 2-3 years and they are "a boute" as we say in french, ill laugh my ass off.

 

[Like_It_Hot]

Free and fast covid testing is the way to go, that way you make sure that covid positive person (vaxx or not) are not in contact with others.

Testing is a temporary plaster. The test just tells that you were negative when you took the test, not that you are "clean" now. They were a game changer when there were no vaccines and while vaccination was going on. They are not the way to go now to fix permanently the problem.
A vaccine offers a 24 hours protection (70-98% efficiency), day after day. That is freedom. The protection is maximum toward the original virus and less toward variant, although still efficient against severe conditions.
A test cost is $150 when performed by a clinic. So if someone is tested twice a week, it is $300 by week. If it goes on for 6 months, the bill goes to $7,800 (26 weeks X $300). See the link.
A Pfiser vaccine cost around $25 CAN, let's add $100 for other fees. 3 shots are $375. I assume we may need a third shot.
A day in a ICU cost a few thousands $ buy day. I don't want to put a price on a death.
An unvaccinated for COVID patient occupies a bed that someone with a cancer or other deadly disease should wait for, decreasing is odd for health recovery. What is the price for this?
Test reliability goes from 50-75% for rapid antigen test, false negative and false positive occurs regularly. Rapid test help to be sure a symptomatic vaccinated person has probably a cold not COVID. If positive, the person is isolated and test again with a PCR test and treated if symptoms are severe.
I am fed up paying for careless people asking the society to pay for there crazy decision based on nothing, now that we know vaccines are safe and efficient and relatively cheap. It prevents disease and deaths, propagation and more importantly the selection for a new variant.
I am fed up, restraining myself attending restaurants, shows, because I want to put all the odds on my side, avoiding contact with unvaccinated people.
I am fed up with business having problems because of the unvaccinated people, losing money, some going bankruptcy (bars and restos).
Mandatory passport vaccine is the way to go.

By the way, as we are on a hobbying site... Who would trust and go with a SP that goes bareback all the way, several time a day with johns she doesn't know who do the same with other SP providing the same service. Nobody reasonable would. And why? To avoid STS causing conditions from mild (treated by antibiotics) to more and sometime very severe but rarely causing deaths. We are within a severe epidemy and we have a powerfull way to end it, vaccination. Vaccine passport and test are tools to help control the spread, Vaccination is a deadly weapon against the virus. Let use it.

GMF Sante Medic Clinic - Montreal

Un GMF est un Groupe de Médecins de Famille qui fournit plus de services, plus de personnel et surtout plus de disponibilités aux patients. Dépistage itss, covid, VIH, Gonorrhée...

covidtest.santemedic.ca

L’efficacité des vaccins de Pfizer et de Moderna tombe à 66% contre le variant Delta

L’efficacité des vaccins de Pfizer et de Moderna est passée de 91% à 66% depuis que le variant Delta est devenu dominant aux États-Unis.

www.journaldemontreal.com

 

[Like_It_Hot]

Double-jabbed people carry same levels of Covid as unvaccinated (telegraph.co.uk)

This is BS. You should be able to understand the statistic before using them. Last week I saw here in Quebec that on a single day there were 13 vaccinated persons hospitalized and around 62 unvaccinated persons. Doest it mean that 13/75 or 17% that are hospitalized are vaccinated yes. Does it mean, being vaccinated you have 17% of odds to get hospitalized? Let's look at it.

First, you have to consider that 75% of the eligible population is fully vaccinated and 18% are not (7% waiting for the second shot). So rouglhy 4 times more vaccinated people than unvaccinated. So if you want to calculate the odds of the vaccinated person to get severe condition (hospitalization needed) you should divide the 17% by 4. So at the end 4,25% come from the vaccinated population and 95,75% come from unvaccinated population for a given total population. Those are the numbers reported by serious organisations and serious newspaper and medias.

The important number, anyway, is the one representing hospitalization, not bearer of the virus. Who cares of a mild cold symptom? We can easily live with it. We also know that even if a vaccinated person can be contaminated, the virus load is much lower and is rapidly killed by the immune reaction induced by the vaccine.

In conclusion, it is about time to stop using silly arguments to argue against the usefulness of the vaccine passport, trying to promote that COVID is a Fake News or that anyway the vaccines do nothing or do poorly against COVID.

ps: COVID is the disease, SARS-CoV2 is the virus. So one can talk about the level or quantity of the virus but not the quantity o COVID. An acceptable term would be COVID Virus in common communication. The way terms are used illustrates the seriousness of the argument.

 

[Like_It_Hot]

Pretty good article covering the basics:

COVID-19 and Travel: What You Should Know

With more and more people traveling again, you may wonder what’s safe. It mainly depends on whether you’ve gotten the COVID-19 vaccine. Here’s what to know if you’re thinking about a trip in the U.S. or abroad.

www.webmd.com

A vaccine passport is not delivered to a COVID negative tested person. In some situations you may get a temporary freepass with a negative test but that is only a one time event and not a permanent one. People who had COVID and got a single shot of the vaccine might be recognized as fully vaccinated and eligible to the vaccine-passport. At least, this is how it goes here in Quebec

 

[transatlantic]

They did the press conference. Non residents just show ID and their proof of vaccination, in your case a CDC card

Thanks for the follow-up. Sound like I don't have to cancel my a September trip.

https://www.quebec.ca/en/health/health-issues/a-z/2019-coronavirus/progress-of-the-covid-19-vaccination/covid-19-vaccination-passport.

Instructions for travellers to Québec​

People travelling to Québec must show photo ID and proof issued by their country or Canadian province that they have had two doses of one of the following recognized vaccines:

• Pfizer
• Moderna
• AstraZeneca
• Covishield
• Jansen (only one dose required)

 

[IamNY]

A vaccine passport is not delivered to a COVID negative tested person. In some situations you may get a temporary freepass with a negative test but that is only a one time event and not a permanent one. People who had COVID and got a single shot of the vaccine might be recognized as fully vaccinated and eligible to the vaccine-passport. At least, this is how it goes here in Quebec

It was an article from WebMD. I’m sure you can speak to them about the issues you have with it.

 

[Like_It_Hot]

It was an article from WebMD. I’m sure you can speak to them about the issues you have with it.

It is a general article from an American organization and some parts are in contradiction with what is actually applied in Canada. Don't take it personal, but most readers of MERB are living in Canada.
So I thought it was important to correct what appeared in your post. I know you did not wrote it! I will surely not write to them. There are already lot of up to date information here in Canada. Cheers!

 

[Francoquart]

Complete bullshit if you ask me, a complete money grab and more government power/ regulation, what does it matter if you’ve been vaccinated or not?
You can still get covid
You can still give covid to others

Yes but they will continue with the empty argument that it is less dangerous if you are vaccinated. Which makes me wonder why do they need to be scared of it in the first place. It is only dangerous for non vaccinated, while vaccinated are safe. So just leave us in peace. It is our health and our life, go enjoy your vaccinated life.

 

[Halloween Mike]

This is BS. You should be able to understand the statistic before using them.

In conclusion, it is about time to stop using silly arguments to argue against the usefulness of the vaccine passport, trying to promote that COVID is a Fake News or that anyway the vaccines do nothing or do poorly against COVID.

Your whole point actually goes around to say the vaccine is effective for the vaccinated person, wich goes full circle to my argument that if i choose to not get vaccinated, im not endangering more the peoples who are vaccinated. And if i get it, give it to somebody non vaccinated, its someone who like me chose to live with the consequences of the virus, so whats the issue? Oh but the hospital, the hospital ... FIX THE DANG HEALTH CARE SYSTEM THEN !! Instead of bashing on us. (Talking to the gov on this, not you lol) or i dunno, make us sign a paper that says the hospitals will treat us last if we happen to need it or that its not responsible for us or whatever. I mean some places have you sign papers like that (decharge in french) that says they ain't responsible if something happen to you. Why can't they have that at the entry of cinema or restaurant or whatever?

Im just tired man of arguing on this cause the arguments are the same. Your numbers are there, i see them, i understand them, and i just think the same thing... vaccinated protect themselves, thats all.

 

[Stx]

The vaccine lowers the odds of getting infected, lowers the probability of having symtoms that would contribute to transmission e.g. coughing, and lowers the duration of disease. Thus, even though peak viral dna in vaccinated vs unvaccinated people infected may be similar with delta, the vaccinated person contributes much much less to transmission of the virus. By extension, they protect those who cannot get vaccinated, e.g. kids.

As for the hospital issue, if we extend the argument of not treating people who don't take care of themselves, then 80% of patients would be left to die due to their obesity, alcohol/cigarette consumption, lack of physical activity, chronic conditions etc. Obviously we cannot do that, it's a nonsense argument. No civilized society will let 1/4 of it's population get decimated by an infectious disease.

 

[gallantca]

As for the hospital issue, if we extend the argument of not treating people who don't take care of themselves, then 80% of patients would be left to die due to their obesity, alcohol/cigarette consumption, lack of physical activity, chronic conditions etc. Obviously we cannot do that, it's a nonsense argument. No civilized society will let 1/4 of it's population get decimated by an infectious disease.

Hey doc,

I tried to put my anti-vaxxer hat on and came up with this brilliant idea. Tell me what you think.

We make the vaccine passport required to go to the hospital.

Absolute genius !!! No ?

(sarcasm)

 

[Halloween Mike]

By extension, they protect those who cannot get vaccinated, e.g. kids.

As for the hospital issue, if we extend the argument of not treating people who don't take care of themselves, then 80% of patients would be left to die due to their obesity, alcohol/cigarette consumption, lack of physical activity, chronic conditions etc. Obviously we cannot do that, it's a nonsense argument.

But there is no vaccine for Mcdonald's or for Cigarette. Thats the difference. Its a person's right to refuse health care, and it is to refuse a vaccine.

By the way speaking of vaccinal passeport... MWAHAHAHAHAHAHA This is a good one

Passeport vaccinal : des failles permettent de générer de faux codes QR (msn.com)

 

[gallantca]

But there is no vaccine for Mcdonald's or for Cigarette. Thats the difference. Its a person's right to refuse health care, and it is to refuse a vaccine.

By the way speaking of vaccinal passeport... MWAHAHAHAHAHAHA This is a good one

Passeport vaccinal : des failles permettent de générer de faux codes QR (msn.com)

And its society's right to refuse access to public services to a non vaccinated person. Example La rougeole, l'école et les enfants.

As for the flaw....yawn....a poor implementation will be patched, and an update sent out. The way these things become secure is by the cat and mouse game between the white hats and the black hats.

The system works all around

 

[gallantca]

Your 1st paragraph could not be more wrong. The vaccine does not lower the odds of infection, it is supposed to ONLY lower your symptoms.

Pretty bold statement from a person that could not be more wrong.

Studies continue to show the vaccine continues to reduce infections and transmission. Less with Delta, but still there.

Break through infections existed before Delta. They are now more frequent, but the vaccines continue to reduce, not eliminate infection.
Viral load are different in vaccinated people. While Delta has made this less effective it still stands.

A video of a known anti-vaxxer PHD who pushes hydroxichloroquine does not make it true. Listen to her, not once does she say "reduce" it's always "prevent".

The #1 argument of anti-vaxxers is "it isn't perfect so we shouldn't do it".

Stx did not say anything wrong. His language was quite precise. "lowers the odds", "lowers the probability".

Bonus points if you decode this sentence "even though peak viral dna in vaccinated vs unvaccinated people infected may be similar with delta, the vaccinated person contributes much much less to transmission of the virus".

 

[gallantca]

Sorry bro. You're in the wrong. It reduces your symptomes not infections and tramsissions. If it would reduce the transmissions then the delta variant cases would not be the rate as it is, no?

As in the vid she said that the jab is obsolete. This vax does not know about this variant and then would bring on this new virus for infection.

Sorry bro, a massive study in the UK was published by Oxford university on Aug 16th and it says you are wrong.

While your peek viral load are the same, the duration of that load is different and lead to shorter periods of transmission. This is one of several factors.

Their conclusion was the vaccine reduces new infections but effectiveness has been reduced with Delta.

Look it up.

 

[Stx]

Your 1st paragraph could not be more wrong. The vaccine does not lower the odds of infection, it is supposed to ONLY lower your symptoms. Nothing else. All vaccines, in their own way, are suppsed train your body to fight the virus. Lately, as time goes an the %'s grow that hospitalization grow of the vaccinated due to the delta variant.

This video explains a lot

Your 2nd paragraph could not be more right. I can't believe that it is even up for duscussion refusal of treatment for unvaccinated. Remember this thing called hippocratic oath?

To the subject at hand, where are all the judges that are supposed to keep the governments in check? We have a charter of rights both federal and provincial. They're supposed to assure we are protected.... YOU HAVE ONE JOB!

Last 2 points to question. Why is the delta variant so predominent in the middle of summer when flus and colds are at their lowest rate? Why are the scientists with PHDs are amoung the vaccine hesitants?

Oh thought of smething else, you old jabs are obsolete.

I can assure you that many vaccines are effective enough to prevent infection. It primes your body to detect the foreign pathogen asap, so if your body can clear it before it can establish itself then you do not get infected. That was the case before delta, the vaccines were astoundingly impressive at preventing covid infections and thus transmission. With delta however, as it hides in the nose, blocking infection is still likely but no longer in the 90%+ range. That is why herd immunity is no longer considered tp be possible. However, like you mentioned, even if the initial defenses of your body cannot prevent the infection from establishing itself, once it is established your symptoms will be much milder, if not nonexistant.

If vaccines could not prevent infection, we would not have been able to eliminate once endemic diseases such as polio, smallpox, MMR, etc. The whole principal of herd immunity depends on vaccines (and in some cases natural immunity) preventing infection and thus transmission.

 

[gallantca]

Really?

Science | AAAS

www.sciencemag.org

This is a science magazine.

Yes and a study from Singapore found similar things.

Your article, if I am not mistaken does not talk about reduce vaccine transmission or infection from Delta. It explains that a previous infection with Covid followed by vaccination effective ?

The Oxford study talk about this, as does a study from the Cleveland clinic. They don't all agree on what is 'best', but they do agree previous infection provides good protection. Quebec was right to consider that an infection counted as a vaccination.

 

[CLOUD 500]

Talking about vaccine passport Quebec released the Vaccine passport app for Apple phones called Vaxicode. They said it would be available by the end of the week for Android users. Up to now still not available. I never understood this preference for Apple. I hate Iphone. Has anyone tried if they are able to download the app on an Android phone? I want to keep visiting stripclubs.

 

[oobe]

Don't worry Cloud it looks like you can generate a fake one easily anyway lol: https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle/1819589/passeport-vaccinal-faille-application-vaxicode