I asked me some questions: Which pourcentage of merbites are french or english speaking? Many members seem bilingual. Are you leaving in Mtl and areas, or in States or an other province?
Stat About Merbites...
- Thread starter MissGrandMarnier
- Start date
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As for where MERBITES are from, see this poll:
https://merb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=4618&highlight=poll+language
As for language, see this poll:
https://merb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=4617&highlight=poll+language
There are other polls/threads on the same topic. Please use the search function. I found these polls in less than 20 seconds doing so.
https://merb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=4618&highlight=poll+language
As for language, see this poll:
https://merb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=4617&highlight=poll+language
There are other polls/threads on the same topic. Please use the search function. I found these polls in less than 20 seconds doing so.
MD,
Of the northeastern American members, virtually all of us (and with a very few exceptions), including myself and Special K, are unilingual English speakers, for the simple reason that French is not spoken anywhere in New England as an official or unofficial language.
There are newer polls on these topics, I just posted two which I thought were intelligently conceived.
Based on my observations there are far more French speakers (or those posting in French) now than there were back in 2003 when the Board was started. This is both good and bad, good because there are more people posting, but bad because the posts are not reaching the widest possible audience. If you don't understand French, like me, the poster who is posting is not reaching that audience (the classic example is poster MAZINGERZ who never posts anything in English even when responding to English posters which is highly irritating and disrespectful). Some posters (notably, Shijak) have made important posts (like on the GTs) in both English and French, which they are to be commended for.
There are translation programs like Babelfish but they simply don't work on posts that are not written in "textbook French", which most on this Board aren't, so I don't even waste my time with it.
Of the northeastern American members, virtually all of us (and with a very few exceptions), including myself and Special K, are unilingual English speakers, for the simple reason that French is not spoken anywhere in New England as an official or unofficial language.
There are newer polls on these topics, I just posted two which I thought were intelligently conceived.
Based on my observations there are far more French speakers (or those posting in French) now than there were back in 2003 when the Board was started. This is both good and bad, good because there are more people posting, but bad because the posts are not reaching the widest possible audience. If you don't understand French, like me, the poster who is posting is not reaching that audience (the classic example is poster MAZINGERZ who never posts anything in English even when responding to English posters which is highly irritating and disrespectful). Some posters (notably, Shijak) have made important posts (like on the GTs) in both English and French, which they are to be commended for.
There are translation programs like Babelfish but they simply don't work on posts that are not written in "textbook French", which most on this Board aren't, so I don't even waste my time with it.
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A bit of history!
EB
To those of us who are Canadians and understand Canadian politics and history Mazingerz's actions are perfectly understandable. I am not saying I condone or don't condone his approach. You could debate that 'til the proverbial cows come home. Just a word to the wise but without going into the specifics which could take numerous threads and go on ad infinitum it might be wise to not pursue this. You just might be flirting with opening the proverbial “can of worms” on this board.
If you feel that as an American speaking English only, that you should be accommodated, that is for agencies who want your business to address. For French speaking Quebeckers sensitive to the preservation of language and culture in Canada, perhaps their attitude is, “When in Rome......” Not saying it's a pragmatic approach but there it is. It is a visceral issue for many Quebeckers. And in the end analysis they really don't have any responsibilities to anyone here. Posting here isn't going to put a dollar in their pocket so nothing at stake except your sensibilities. I wouldn't call them on that one. What keeps it all civil (I believe) is that there is a large contingent on the board who are perfectly bilingual, both guys and girls and they set the example. This board works remarkably well and that is to their credit. It could be a lot worse. Might be best to live and let live on this one. Just a suggestion so don't shoot the messenger.
EagerBeaver said:
EB
To those of us who are Canadians and understand Canadian politics and history Mazingerz's actions are perfectly understandable. I am not saying I condone or don't condone his approach. You could debate that 'til the proverbial cows come home. Just a word to the wise but without going into the specifics which could take numerous threads and go on ad infinitum it might be wise to not pursue this. You just might be flirting with opening the proverbial “can of worms” on this board.
If you feel that as an American speaking English only, that you should be accommodated, that is for agencies who want your business to address. For French speaking Quebeckers sensitive to the preservation of language and culture in Canada, perhaps their attitude is, “When in Rome......” Not saying it's a pragmatic approach but there it is. It is a visceral issue for many Quebeckers. And in the end analysis they really don't have any responsibilities to anyone here. Posting here isn't going to put a dollar in their pocket so nothing at stake except your sensibilities. I wouldn't call them on that one. What keeps it all civil (I believe) is that there is a large contingent on the board who are perfectly bilingual, both guys and girls and they set the example. This board works remarkably well and that is to their credit. It could be a lot worse. Might be best to live and let live on this one. Just a suggestion so don't shoot the messenger.
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RG,
This Board does not exist in Montreal. It exists in cyberspace along with the rest of the Internet. Thus Canadian politics have no application here. Board rules and politics apply here. Make sure you understand where you are before you take such a position.
And yes, I feel I should be accomodated on this Board. Maybe I would not feel that way if I was in the Eastern part of Montreal. But I am not. I am here, in cyberspace, where Canadian politics do not apply. And the fact is that this was started as an English speaking Board and not a French speaking province. This is MERB. MERB is not a French dominion. It is a dominion of the internet and a community populated by Americans and Canadians. We don't have any language laws here or Quebec politics and we don't need that kind of bullshit dragged on to this Board. I signed up to be a MERB member, I did not sign up to become a citizen of Quebec with all its political issues which I don't care about.
And I will say it again, Mazingerz is very rude to respond to English-only posters with French posts they don't understand. If I was a Mod I would have suspended him because this Board is not governed by Quebec laws and I refuse to be subject to them. I pay my taxes to the USA and the State of Connecticut. I am subject only to the laws of my country and my state, unless I am in your country and right now I am not. I am in cyberspace, although physically my body is in the USA. There is no jurisdiction over my person by these laws you attempt to invoke.
Show me where MERB has adopted any language laws or any other laws of Quebec, please?
This Board does not exist in Montreal. It exists in cyberspace along with the rest of the Internet. Thus Canadian politics have no application here. Board rules and politics apply here. Make sure you understand where you are before you take such a position.
And yes, I feel I should be accomodated on this Board. Maybe I would not feel that way if I was in the Eastern part of Montreal. But I am not. I am here, in cyberspace, where Canadian politics do not apply. And the fact is that this was started as an English speaking Board and not a French speaking province. This is MERB. MERB is not a French dominion. It is a dominion of the internet and a community populated by Americans and Canadians. We don't have any language laws here or Quebec politics and we don't need that kind of bullshit dragged on to this Board. I signed up to be a MERB member, I did not sign up to become a citizen of Quebec with all its political issues which I don't care about.
And I will say it again, Mazingerz is very rude to respond to English-only posters with French posts they don't understand. If I was a Mod I would have suspended him because this Board is not governed by Quebec laws and I refuse to be subject to them. I pay my taxes to the USA and the State of Connecticut. I am subject only to the laws of my country and my state, unless I am in your country and right now I am not. I am in cyberspace, although physically my body is in the USA. There is no jurisdiction over my person by these laws you attempt to invoke.
Show me where MERB has adopted any language laws or any other laws of Quebec, please?
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I'm from Southern Ontario, and I don't speak much french. I took it in grade school, but never practiced because there is no one to practice with. I watch mostly American tv. It's just not spoken here, so I know about 200 french words and can't really put them into a sentence. Everyone talks so fast, forget about it. Most of the time I can't even detect the words that I do know. And my pronunciation is with a thick anglo accent. Maybe I'll buy one of those "learn french CD's".
Well EB your cyberspace argument might have some merit if this was the ERB and not the MERB. But that very fact precludes getting away from the geography of it all. Are you bound legally by Quebec law? No, never said you were. But politics is often about sentiment not just geography. And if memory serves me correctly you are the one dragging the language bullshit onto the board. I had no axe to grind in bringing this up. But hey, you have made your position clear. If you want to call Mazingerz out and refer to him as rude and disrespectful go for it. Call for the MODS to suspend him. I for one will be watching with interest.
EagerBeaver said:RG,
I signed up to be a MERB member, I did not sign up to become a citizen of Quebec with all its political issues which I don't care about.
QUOTE]
HA HA HA you are soooooooooooooooo right i never looked at it that way before. you are one smart BEAVER
RG,
I do by my post above call for the Mods to suspend Mazingerz for one week if he again attempts to reply to an English post with a French post that cannot be understood by the poster responded to. I have no problem with Mazingerz replying in French to French posters or bilingual posters, but other posters who are unilingual have complained about his behavior. Let's not make excuses for rude and boorish behavior. Mazingerz's behavior is rude, boorish and disrespectful, and there is no excuse for it. If he does it again, I say suspend him for 1 week as an example that intentional discourtesy will not be tolerated.
Amanda,
There are a lot of assumptions embedded into your post that do not apply in reality. I have tried to learn French, I just can't do it. Where I have lived my whole life, NOBODY speaks French, so it is destined to be an unsuccessful endeavor, unless you have someone to speak to as mentioned by the member above from Ontario. I don't think it's asking a lot that if I post in English, and someone is capable of replying in English, that they do so. That's called basic common courtesy and decency and there is no excuse for not doing it.
As far as Bill 101, as far as I know it was not enacted on this Board and it is not a rule on this Board. This Board has its own rules and Bill 101 is not one of them. There is no official language on this Board.
I am a supporting member of this Board which is equivalent to being a taxpayer of a country so I do feel I have a say on these issues. By paying money to support MERB I did not become a Montreal citizen nor am I subject to its laws, politics or agendas of other posters who have feelings about same. I signed up for a Board on which I can exchange information with other hobbyists. I expect them to want to have that as a common goal and not some bullshit politics that I have nothing to do with. It's all about common courtesy, not politics, because those politics do not exist on the Board. The only politics we have are Mod politics, which are the politics of discipline. In that regard, Mazingerz is deserving of some discipline.
I do by my post above call for the Mods to suspend Mazingerz for one week if he again attempts to reply to an English post with a French post that cannot be understood by the poster responded to. I have no problem with Mazingerz replying in French to French posters or bilingual posters, but other posters who are unilingual have complained about his behavior. Let's not make excuses for rude and boorish behavior. Mazingerz's behavior is rude, boorish and disrespectful, and there is no excuse for it. If he does it again, I say suspend him for 1 week as an example that intentional discourtesy will not be tolerated.
Amanda,
There are a lot of assumptions embedded into your post that do not apply in reality. I have tried to learn French, I just can't do it. Where I have lived my whole life, NOBODY speaks French, so it is destined to be an unsuccessful endeavor, unless you have someone to speak to as mentioned by the member above from Ontario. I don't think it's asking a lot that if I post in English, and someone is capable of replying in English, that they do so. That's called basic common courtesy and decency and there is no excuse for not doing it.
As far as Bill 101, as far as I know it was not enacted on this Board and it is not a rule on this Board. This Board has its own rules and Bill 101 is not one of them. There is no official language on this Board.
I am a supporting member of this Board which is equivalent to being a taxpayer of a country so I do feel I have a say on these issues. By paying money to support MERB I did not become a Montreal citizen nor am I subject to its laws, politics or agendas of other posters who have feelings about same. I signed up for a Board on which I can exchange information with other hobbyists. I expect them to want to have that as a common goal and not some bullshit politics that I have nothing to do with. It's all about common courtesy, not politics, because those politics do not exist on the Board. The only politics we have are Mod politics, which are the politics of discipline. In that regard, Mazingerz is deserving of some discipline.
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RG,
I will go out on a limb & venture a guess that Mazingerz’s chivalrous linguistic posts are just a load of …. & only meant for the attention that his political stance (on a sex board, IN sex reviews/posts) superficially seems to be searching for.
My follow up guess is that if a unilingual English speaking SP, (that he is so hot for) comes to meet him, he’ll open the proverbial door & speak in whatever language that is going to make that encounter & all his deep rooted supposedly linguistic convictions will be out that very same door before she closes it and introduces herself.
It may be a stretch but I thought that us users of services (called hobbyists) were supposed to draw on each other's information posted/shared to best make choices & if one with said information is intenionally responding to someone with valid information in a language that he knows that they have don't speak, like the Americans, such as EagerBeaver, et al,he is doing it for no purpose other than to make some statement that he doesn't actually wish to share information.
I am now toying with the idea of starting a thread to ask those who don't speak French, to register their names on a list of not understanding French,so that posters such as Mazingerz could refer to it before sharing any information in the language of that poster. This is obviously in jest but the sad thing is that those posters who answer someone in a language other than the language that they asked it in,are just being plain rude.
I will go out on a limb & venture a guess that Mazingerz’s chivalrous linguistic posts are just a load of …. & only meant for the attention that his political stance (on a sex board, IN sex reviews/posts) superficially seems to be searching for.
My follow up guess is that if a unilingual English speaking SP, (that he is so hot for) comes to meet him, he’ll open the proverbial door & speak in whatever language that is going to make that encounter & all his deep rooted supposedly linguistic convictions will be out that very same door before she closes it and introduces herself.
It may be a stretch but I thought that us users of services (called hobbyists) were supposed to draw on each other's information posted/shared to best make choices & if one with said information is intenionally responding to someone with valid information in a language that he knows that they have don't speak, like the Americans, such as EagerBeaver, et al,he is doing it for no purpose other than to make some statement that he doesn't actually wish to share information.
I am now toying with the idea of starting a thread to ask those who don't speak French, to register their names on a list of not understanding French,so that posters such as Mazingerz could refer to it before sharing any information in the language of that poster. This is obviously in jest but the sad thing is that those posters who answer someone in a language other than the language that they asked it in,are just being plain rude.
Regular Guy said:
Well said Regular Guy. (PS ... great signature line!)
I'm somewhat bilingual and live in Western Canada. Despite my lack of perfection, french speaking Quebecers welcome me with open arms and generous hearts.
As a volunteer I help others learn English - even those from Quebec and France. Those who speak English are lucky as it is the language that most want to learn.
We should remember that language is such a part of our souls .... to crticize someone for using a language is bound to hurt or cause instinctive anger. Whatever frustrations we may feel when English speakers don't understand a language, just image how others must feel... my bet is that a person in Quebec who considers French his or her language faces frustrations we can only dream of.
Let everyone speak the language they want to. Celebrate the differences and their abilities and their affection for the language they wish to speak. If I don't understand, a soft approach and a compliment or apology causes the other to bend over backwards to help.
When I'm in a foreign country and don't speak the language, I still feel welcome by the people, but I feel somewhat rude and inferior.
A bit of accomodation and understanding goes a long way. As I travel, I find that tourists can generally be divided into 2 groups: one that finds the differences they encounter fascinating and those that find the differences they encounter as being wrong - with great hesitation let me say that you often find our wonderful friends from that great country to the south of us in the 2nd group.
Regular Guy said:
RG,
When I sent in my payment to become a supporting member of MERB, do you think I sent it to Montreal??????? Do you people think this Board is run in Montreal?HAHAHAHHA
Dude, I sent the payment to an address in Toronto, Ontario, Canada!!!!!!! That's where this Board is run from. Is this news to all of you?
By the ways, Bill 101 is not law in Toronto, in cyberspace, or where I am posting from. So exactly what geography are you talking about?????????
EB with all due respect...
EB, let me preface my post by saying that I never felt you to be a francophobe, contrarily to some members, when writing on the language issues of postings--even though your positions are very clear cut. But when I read your posts, I always consider them knowing "who you are" (from the little I know...) and where you're from. Context in opinions is everything, sometimes.
So while I agree MERB is in cyberspace and should not be governed by language laws, I can't ignore its context. It seems more+ more members are from Montreal/ Quebec . And the local population feels a need to express itself in French and wants to be respected that way, after years of disrespect. I think this is what RG was refering to, not necessarily to LAWS that should or nor apply. So you should not ask for suspensions based on language preference.
As far as I know, there is no law governing posting on the internet either. Internet dominions do not say if Moliere or Shakespeare --not Goethe,nor Cervantes btw-- should be used. I certainly agree no one should be asking you to support Quebec politics by being a MERBite. But I would just ask your understanding of the particular context it's in...
Now for you to say someone is "rude" because of the language he choses to post in does not feel good to me. I could say you are rude to not care about Quebec subtleties and its people, to have the nerve to ask for accomodations, to ask for a suspensionon a french posting member. Do you know how is his english? Is it too much to use a translator for his usually short posts? Maybe you won't care about my comment, but I find it sad to read you simply don't care about Quebec political issues. The best part of traveling is to learn and understand the people who live there. It's what makes it so good to go to a place...no?
EagerBeaver said:
EB, let me preface my post by saying that I never felt you to be a francophobe, contrarily to some members, when writing on the language issues of postings--even though your positions are very clear cut. But when I read your posts, I always consider them knowing "who you are" (from the little I know...) and where you're from. Context in opinions is everything, sometimes.
So while I agree MERB is in cyberspace and should not be governed by language laws, I can't ignore its context. It seems more+ more members are from Montreal/ Quebec . And the local population feels a need to express itself in French and wants to be respected that way, after years of disrespect. I think this is what RG was refering to, not necessarily to LAWS that should or nor apply. So you should not ask for suspensions based on language preference.
As far as I know, there is no law governing posting on the internet either. Internet dominions do not say if Moliere or Shakespeare --not Goethe,nor Cervantes btw-- should be used. I certainly agree no one should be asking you to support Quebec politics by being a MERBite. But I would just ask your understanding of the particular context it's in...
Now for you to say someone is "rude" because of the language he choses to post in does not feel good to me. I could say you are rude to not care about Quebec subtleties and its people, to have the nerve to ask for accomodations, to ask for a suspensionon a french posting member. Do you know how is his english? Is it too much to use a translator for his usually short posts? Maybe you won't care about my comment, but I find it sad to read you simply don't care about Quebec political issues. The best part of traveling is to learn and understand the people who live there. It's what makes it so good to go to a place...no?
EagerBeaver said:
Oh, of course Bill 101 is not a law in cyberspace. But the reverse is true: there is no law governing language of posting in cyberspace. No one should be made to post in a language they don't want to...
If someone posts in Tamil here, we will simply find him irrelevant--and cluttering. But french... quite relevant for many on this board...
Internet suffers from English hegemony. Why? (rethorical question) Is it because it is a simpler language for people to use (poorly)... more common international one... whatever. But the pressures of the market are not laws one has to abide by. As far as I know, no one has ever shied from asking a translation of a post and in the great majority of cases someone will provide.
Language skills?
Just out of curiosity, has anyone asked Mazingerz what his skills are in English? There are some on here who I believe may have great difficulty with English. I am going to go out on a limb here and say that may be true for Ally. I have run into people from Quebec who cannot speak English. My neighbour is one of them. I also had hired a drywall guy to do some work and had to speak to him in French. Luckily I am barely fluent. I just wouldn't want to exclude anybody who is not fluent in English or perhaps feels they might be misinterpreted because their English skills are so poor. Is that unreasonable? It would be the height of ludicrousy to exclude people from their own city from posting on this board. Look, Montreal is in Quebec. Would it kill anybody to extend themselves at least?
Just out of curiosity, has anyone asked Mazingerz what his skills are in English? There are some on here who I believe may have great difficulty with English. I am going to go out on a limb here and say that may be true for Ally. I have run into people from Quebec who cannot speak English. My neighbour is one of them. I also had hired a drywall guy to do some work and had to speak to him in French. Luckily I am barely fluent. I just wouldn't want to exclude anybody who is not fluent in English or perhaps feels they might be misinterpreted because their English skills are so poor. Is that unreasonable? It would be the height of ludicrousy to exclude people from their own city from posting on this board. Look, Montreal is in Quebec. Would it kill anybody to extend themselves at least?
This has to do with disrespect by one poster and I am not the only person who has complained. He has obviously understood quite well the English posts he has responded to and he also understood he was replying to someone who spoke no French. That is RUDE, plain and simple. It has nothing to do with disrespect towards Francophones and everything to do with the discourtesy of one poster who has chosen to bring his own political agenda on this Board, which I want no part of.
Hormone, I have no problem with posting in French by the Francophones. I do have a problem with the discourtesy shown by mazingerz to English posters.
As pointed out by Mod 5, the founders and all the original posters on this Board were Anglophones. That has changed and now in the last few years we see some posters like mazingerz. There is no problem with that. There is a problem with them foisting political agendas on this Board related to language issues. Doing so is a simple violation of the rule about courtesy towards other posters. That rule needs to be enforced and it should be enforced in an even handed manner toward all posters, Anglophone or Francophone, who show disrespect towards others whatever the reason. Quebec laws are not an excuse for rudeness.
I have a working knowledge of these political issues, Hormone. I know what Bill 101 is. My own personal opinion about it is irrelevant since I am not a voter or taxpayer or resident of Quebec. And frankly I believe that I should not have these laws imposed on me. That's not what I signed up for here.
Hormone, I have no problem with posting in French by the Francophones. I do have a problem with the discourtesy shown by mazingerz to English posters.
As pointed out by Mod 5, the founders and all the original posters on this Board were Anglophones. That has changed and now in the last few years we see some posters like mazingerz. There is no problem with that. There is a problem with them foisting political agendas on this Board related to language issues. Doing so is a simple violation of the rule about courtesy towards other posters. That rule needs to be enforced and it should be enforced in an even handed manner toward all posters, Anglophone or Francophone, who show disrespect towards others whatever the reason. Quebec laws are not an excuse for rudeness.
I have a working knowledge of these political issues, Hormone. I know what Bill 101 is. My own personal opinion about it is irrelevant since I am not a voter or taxpayer or resident of Quebec. And frankly I believe that I should not have these laws imposed on me. That's not what I signed up for here.
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Discretion, the better part of Valour
Well EB, if you are right and he is doing this deliberately to be an a__hole then, as you see from the arguments presented, maybe the best way to handle it is to ignore him. I don't disagree that there are some who pull stunts like this. It just causes hard feelings, I agree. Incidentally there are those of the English speaking persuasion in Canada who pull the same stunt. Just one of those annoying little irritants in life. People will eventually get his measure and avoid him if they catch on that he is doing this deliberately. My only point was the roots of language and culture run deep for our French speaking brothers and sisters and to start a debate about language restrictions on this board, in particular, might not be a good plan. I'm not attacking you personally just making a suggestion, okay?
Well EB, if you are right and he is doing this deliberately to be an a__hole then, as you see from the arguments presented, maybe the best way to handle it is to ignore him. I don't disagree that there are some who pull stunts like this. It just causes hard feelings, I agree. Incidentally there are those of the English speaking persuasion in Canada who pull the same stunt. Just one of those annoying little irritants in life. People will eventually get his measure and avoid him if they catch on that he is doing this deliberately. My only point was the roots of language and culture run deep for our French speaking brothers and sisters and to start a debate about language restrictions on this board, in particular, might not be a good plan. I'm not attacking you personally just making a suggestion, okay?
Thanks for the clarifications, EB. I certainly don't want an escort board to become a language board--we have enough of this here!! I just thought it would be better to phrase your comments on how you feel some things may be disrecpectful vs it simply IS (as a fact, accepted as such by all...). Subtlety. I don't think we are coercing anything on you if someone wants to post in French only-- displeasure,
While I respect your opinion (even if I disagree with some), I think I would phrase the issue as such:
1- someone who posts only in french as stated "because those f*** bast*** english people should learn anyway"-- lack of mutual understanding and respect. This I do not approve of.
2- someone who posts only in french because of personal choice (without expressing no 1), or personal linguistic comfort-- there is nothing I can say about this, it's his-her freedom. Sub-optimal? Yes. Suspendable? No. And hey, translation tools are a load of fun! Like watching sub-titles on Hong Kong movies!!
I don't know enough of the workings to start a poll, but I really think it would be fun to know the comfort zone of MERBites with various languages, it may help some to think about how they post.
While I respect your opinion (even if I disagree with some), I think I would phrase the issue as such:
1- someone who posts only in french as stated "because those f*** bast*** english people should learn anyway"-- lack of mutual understanding and respect. This I do not approve of.
2- someone who posts only in french because of personal choice (without expressing no 1), or personal linguistic comfort-- there is nothing I can say about this, it's his-her freedom. Sub-optimal? Yes. Suspendable? No. And hey, translation tools are a load of fun! Like watching sub-titles on Hong Kong movies!!
I don't know enough of the workings to start a poll, but I really think it would be fun to know the comfort zone of MERBites with various languages, it may help some to think about how they post.
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