Long term arrangements

[Dasein]

To follow-up on my previous post, I do feel that I have been lucky with SB (even though it has required significantly greater amounts of time than agencies and indies).

In October, I saw a mid-twenties girl, very cute and fit, from Western Canada. We talked a couple of times on the phone and exchanged very flirtatious text messages and then had a really lovely two-week fling. She prefers seeing only one guy at a time, so the occasional pay per meeting doesn't really work for her... she is the only one with whom I had a weekly allowance type of situation. At $600 a week during a time period that I was more available than usual, we saw each other 2 times per week. Usually for dinner or drinks and then back to her place. She used to be a ballet dancer and had great flexibility. She also loved taking it deep. One time I was giving it to her from behind, standing up, and she then proceeded to bend all the way over with her head between her feet, holding her ankles while I held her hips tightly (I did not want her to fall!) and I alternated between slowly sliding in and out of her while enjoying an incredible view and pounding her mercilessly. My mind was blown. So much fun -- we both had a blast....

My worst experience was meeting a super cute and bright undergrad downtown for coffee. I cannot say that we really clicked, but there was definitely some potential chemistry. But we could not find a common ground on the financial aspect. She wanted payment for platonic meetings first, and then we would see if intimacy developed. While I see how that is a perfectly reasonable route for some couples and it might make the SB feel safer, it made me feel like I might be taken advantage of. I did not want to invest time and money on the possibility of something more down the line.

 

[EagerBeaver]

She wanted payment for platonic meetings first, and then we would see if intimacy developed. While I see how that is a perfectly reasonable route for some couples and it might make the SB feel safer, it made me feel like I might be taken advantage of. I did not want to invest time and money on the possibility of something more down the line.

I have had numerous arrangements that started exactly like that. Although I did not invest much in the platonic dates ($100/$150, usually) and intimacy was usually achieved after 2-5 dates. Here is what you need to learn about Sugar Baby 101- and it's exactly what you said: women want to feel safe and have a comfort level with their arrangement partner. And if you are not socially inept or aggressively ugly, the chances are very high you will be able to provide her with that sense of safety and comfort level. Most women worth having arrangements with, and especially women in the age 18-22 age group, want to have this comfort level before they go back to your place. With a lot of them, it's a personal security issue. One of the women I dated, for over 2 years, was a huge fan of the TV show Criminal Minds, and she was worried she would end up a victim. I needed 5 dates with her before she felt safe that I wasn't a serial killer and that she could trust me. It is what it is- many women on SA do not want to have a P4P arrangement from the git go, they want to "see where it goes", which is code for you need to make her feel safe and respected. It's not that hard to do, and if you can't do it, you suck. If you can, you will get P4P. It's that simple.

A lot of guys, and I am one, like the adventure aspect of it, of having to actually earn the sexual trust. Other guys want it quick and easy, or quick and cheap, or else they know they are social trainwrecks who cannot put a woman at ease after 1, 2 or 5 dates. Those guys can't play the SA game. They are not built for it. You gotta look in the mirror and know who you are and what game you are built for. I have played all the games. I like the SA game, but I always remember it is a game and I have no illusions about that. In the end I have treated SBs the same as I have treated escorts on dinner dates, and I have enjoyed my times equally with both. With the non pro girls, most of them anyway, there is a feeling of exclusivity even if they are seeing another SD. Somehow it feels more GFE to me. Maybe that isn't real or reality, but who fucking cares? It's all a game. Anyway, we have a lot of people who are incapable of playing the game for one or more of the reasons I have mentioned who are posting in this thread, and it's sort of like reading commentary about legal strategy from someone who is not an attorney, has never been inside a courtroom, or picked a jury, or argued a hard or losing case to a Judge or jury, or lost and won cases. SA is a game and it's a game that can be enjoyed if one is willing to understand, accept and execute some basic strategies. I truly believe that 90% of the guys who do that, and who do not have some social anxiety disorder or other social trainwrecking issue that gets out of control, and does not look like Jabba the Hutt, can pull it off.

Dasein, with all due respect, your post I quoted above is a classic losing mentality. Built in to your post is the negative statement that you are "being taken advantage of." No you are not being taken advantage of. You know the rules, and you play to win and to take advantage of the game, or not. You chose to not take advantage of the game, and you did not choose to not be taken advantage of. That is not what happened, my friend. It's not a possibility, it's a "probability" to someone who has clearly defined the rules of engagement and plays the game to win. These are attitudinal issues which determine whether you win the game. You make a statement like that around women, she will smell a loser. You have to have the mentality that you are in it for at least 3-5 dates if you like and want her, if not, game is not for you.

 

[Dasein]

Eager Beaver, if I had more time, I would be willing to play the game in the way the undergrad wanted and that you seem to espouse or enjoy. But I don’t have that time, nor am I interested in doing it that way. Not sure why you qualify my mentality as “loser”... I think that I have had great success in doing things in a way that both me and the girl feel super comfortable, which paved the way to great sex, with the extra GfE illusion that you mentioned. I just don’t have time for a “courtship “. With the ballerina,, we met for drinks with no money exchanged and no guarantees. We hit it off, came to a financial agreement, and then went straight to her place for 3 or 4 hours of really fun intimacy.
To each his/her own

 

[Sol Tee Nutz]

I try and stay out of this thread but get drawn towards it. Some members claim you need to know how to play the game to get somewhere..... Now just my opinion but paying someone to be with you and claim it is dating is delusional. If they claim to have game and convince someone they are worthy should not have to pay someone...... With all that game find someone for free or max the cost of a dinner. If I want sex I see an escort, do not want to play games ( pay ) to purchase sex later. The games they play are to see how much money you have, nothing else.

 

[Sol Tee Nutz]

^^^^^ I understand that but the same can be done with dating without the added expense, you may not get the girl out of your league but you probably will meet someone who is on the same level as you ( maturity ) and hopefully interests. With the majority of escorts I have met there is no common interests due to the age gap, I do not pretend to be 20.
Best scenario for me would be to meet someone and have dinner with them ( only for the cost of a dinner ) then call an agency for sex after. ( myself I prefer sex first and dinner after because who likes to fuck on a full stomach ).
To each their own but the sugar babies are checking to see if you can afford them ( my guess ). Some even fall in love with the paid for companions thinking the sweetie really may see them someday without payment.
Just giving my opinion.

 

[Fradi]

I am like STN I try to stay away from this thread as the only reason I can see for it is in the US to get around LE.
I agree that anybody who thinks paying a young university student for sex and thinking he has game is just as delusional as the student who thinks she is not a prostitute.
They somehow think they are different and better than a John and a prostitute, to me it is calling a donkey an ass.
I neither have the time nor the patience nor would I want to play these kind of games.

 

[jalimon]

Fradi, STN by "having a game" I do not think they refer to actually knowing how to play the game to score girl. I think they mean what to do and how to act in order to score SA girl that otherwise would have rejected you. Most of SA girl are not escort. They want to handpick their client and money is often not the first factor. So yes you do need to "have a game" in order to score the best one without breaking the bank and making it last. I know I gave up on SA because it's too complicated

 

[Sol Tee Nutz]

Just copied from above.
If you look back at life in retrospect, and most of us wish we knew then what we know now, the girls in high school who didn’t do the “Valley Girl clique” or the Sorority Pledging were just as hot, and a hell of a lot nicer people, than those who did.

These were the girls I knew, loved camping and fishing, not clicky, real people and yes, quite good looking who enjoyed sex.
In my days the men held doors open and paid for dinner also.

 

[EagerBeaver]

Eager Beaver, if I had more time, I would be willing to play the game in the way the undergrad wanted and that you seem to espouse or enjoy. But I don’t have that time, nor am I interested in doing it that way. Not sure why you qualify my mentality as “loser”... I think that I have had great success in doing things in a way that both me and the girl feel super comfortable, which paved the way to great sex, with the extra GfE illusion that you mentioned. I just don’t have time for a “courtship “. With the ballerina,, we met for drinks with no money exchanged and no guarantees. We hit it off, came to a financial agreement, and then went straight to her place for 3 or 4 hours of really fun intimacy.
To each his/her own

Dasein, I totally understand your point of view. And you are right - the single biggest problem with playing the SA game is that it's a huge investment of time, and many guys (including most of my married friends) simply do not have enough of it. What I meant by a loser mentality was the actual statements you made in the prior post- they can be fatal to an attempted arrangement. I don't think you are a loser, but when you make statements like that with a woman, or similar words, she will smell that. A lot of guys don't understand that while escorts are a guaranteed score, most SBs on SA are not. Even if you can invest the time, and go on multiple dates, the success rate isn't 100% like it is with escorts. Sometimes, you get a second date but not a third. I have even had a 3rd but not a 4th. I made mistakes. It happened to me with one girl, who I tried to kiss on the second date. Never got a third date with her, but I made other mistakes with her as well.

Anyway, the aspect I like about SA shows that I am wired a little differently than most. These other guys posting recently, for them, women are mere receptacles for their semen, and it's best that the job of finding a new home for their semen is done as quickly and as cost effectively as possible. They don't give a rat's fucking ass what comes before, as long as it is gotten over with quick and they don't have to pay much for the job. I am not wired like that. I like the flirtation and courtship attendant to the dating process, and everything that comes before the sex. I like the social science and experimentation. The sex is not guaranteed with a SB. As I mentioned in my prior post, you have to earn it. The girls are not pros, or semi pros- most of them anyway. They are just regular college students needing extra money and not minding banging an older guy. But most of them have standards, and you have got to prove you meet them. To me, that whole process is interesting, adventurous, and depending on the girl, it can be quite challenging. I like the challenge and strategy as much as the semen transplantation process. That's what differentiates me. I am wired different.

 

[Dasein]

Eager Beaver -- thanks for clarifying. I agree -- I would never be so blunt with a potential SB as I was in my post! However, the girls that I have seen have appreciated that I do not want to waste their time and that I expect the same from them. Most have explicitly told me that. But what I have found is that on Secret Benefits, there are lots of girls looking for different things. Some really just want financial support in exchange for a platonic relationship. Others use the platform like an escort would. Personally, what turns me on is something in the middle. I want to meet their standards, but I don't want the hassles of a courtship.

And I totally get it that we are wired differently. I still very much enjoy seeing escorts! But I have never wanted to go on a dinner date with one. I prefer spending my time and money catching up with a good friend over a nice bottle of wine and a good meal. But I love the intimacy (not just physical) that 2 hours with an escort that I can connect with provides.

 

[vtp246]

In 2019 I mostly stopped seeing SW to move to SB on seeking, I found out that in terms of cost it’s a lot cheaper to have an SB because they are usually not time centric, more PPM than PPH. However being quite a young hobbyist, getting in SB was becoming a bit confusing from a relationship standpoint, friend, buddy, $ friend, lover? Went through it all depending on what the girl was looking for. I’m going back to SW because they are generally more structured, they know what they want and there’s no ambiguity.

 

[R the Man]

After a long history of loving the GFE escort scene here in Montreal, I thought I'd try Secret Arrangements, because I recently had great experiences with similar SB sites when I travelled in Jakarta and Bangkok. The girls I saw there were definitely semi-pros, more cute and natural than escorts, and the service level was as good or better. And it was fun with the flirty texts back and forth before the visit.

I've been on SA for 2 weeks, and it's been great. Most girls have shared photos with me and I have been messaging at least a dozen girls off the site, and have agreements to meet them when I visit Montreal again in a couple of weeks. It's just a matter of deciding how many to see, since I can't see them all, so it's a matter of GND but really friendly texting, or DDG but a little less outgoing by text. I ask for a selfie so that I don't just go on the glam photos that they use on the site. I've ruled out a few because the selfies are not as attractive as the site photos. I may try to meet 5 or 6 girls in the 3 days I'm there to try them out and see if any are worth a regular visit during my Montreal trips.

I've been open and direct about the arrangements with them (I wouldn't put up with a platonic first date). All of them have agreed to dates with "intimacy" (that's the SA code for sex) on a pay per meeting basis, basically for what it costs for an indy escort. Maybe I'm just good at this, but they all seem legit and enthusiastic. I'll report back how it goes after my visit, and whether they all show up or ghost me as others have reported.

 

[theyellowman]

In 2019 I mostly stopped seeing SW to move to SB on seeking, I found out that in terms of cost it’s a lot cheaper to have an SB because they are usually not time centric, more PPM than PPH. However being quite a young hobbyist, getting in SB was becoming a bit confusing from a relationship standpoint, friend, buddy, $ friend, lover? Went through it all depending on what the girl was looking for. I’m going back to SW because they are generally more structured, they know what they want and there’s no ambiguity.

It could be cheaper for someone who use to see SP more than 2x/month or dinner date session . I stopped seeing SP and switch to SB more than a year now . I like the companionship and no rush session..! But exactly like Vtp mentioned, be clear in your head...no confusion in this type of relationship. It must be a NSA relationship or a friend with benefits ..!

 

[jjjeannn16]

Very interesting thread. Took me a while to go through :fat:
I’m thinking of giving SB a try and I have question for you guys. In a per meeting basis, would you still pay for the social event ( if any before/after intimacy). I don’t wanna sound cheap but I just don’t wanna get scammed neither
Thanks in advance forgive advices

 

[CaptRenault]

. In a per meeting basis, would you still pay for the social event ( if any before/after intimacy). I don’t wanna sound cheap...

You might sound cheap, but it's not clear. Are you asking whether you would pay for the girl's meal and drinks if you go out to lunch or dinner before a pay-per-meeting encounter?

If so, then the answer is yes, of course you would pay for any routine date expenses. You can't ask the girl to split the check!

The pay-per-meeting amount covers only the girl's time (and intimate acts that happen during that time). How much time? That's up to you and the girl.

But you want to avoid being too specific. If you start negotiating an hourly rate, then you're talking with an escort and not a sugar baby. If you notice that the girl is clock-watching or asking for more money because she stayed X number of hours and she thought it would only be X-1 hours, then she needs to advertise herself as an escort and not a SB and you need to find another SB.

If you are uncomfortable with this kind of ambiguity, then you should stick to escorts and not go the SB route.

 

[jjjeannn16]

Thanks for your answer Renault. That much more clear to me now.

 

[R the Man]

created a profile just for hell of it. Pretty sure I have no intention of becoming a paying member (seems u need to be one to contact girls). But i can see profiles....i see several former and current SPs

How many profiles on Seeking.com do you think are SPs? Of the 8 that I've been chatting to and arranged a meet, there was only 1 that I thought might be an SP, and interestingly she bailed on me the morning of the meet, saying she had a cold. There was 1 who was TGTBT based on photos that she sent, and she bailed on me a couple of days before with a lame excuse.

I will be posting reviews of my Sugar Baby trip experience in a few days, when I'm done. The teaser? - some good, some not so good experiences.

 

[hungry101]

^^^ It will be an interesting read for sure. I am seeing some nice escorts on Twitter for 400$/hour. I think that a lot of escorting has gone over to Twitter and I think an SB/SD arrangement has become a way to legitimize the hobby. We have lost some prominent posters such at Delta123 and Rumples to SD/SB arrangements. Capt Renault has had some great experiences. I am ready to learn more.

 

[EagerBeaver]

A lot of girls will say no sex on first date, because they want to see if you are creepy or make them uncomfortable. Usually you can pay $100 for the so called screening dates and $300-$400 for sexual dates (the code is "intimate" dates, never use the word sex or sexual on there) also including dinner.

In my experience it's less than 5% of the women on there that are pros, and the ones who are give themselves away with escort like photography and, as JackFranz astutely mentioned, the "honey" or 'babe" greetings on initial messaging.

Don't you guys do targeted searches?????????? My basic saved search is 18-25, all races, slim and athletic, and newer registrations listed first because the newest are usually the easiest to get dates with. If you are not narrowing your searches properly you may end up seeing more pros. In my searches I see almost none and the ones I do see it's pretty clearcut because they are marketing themselves as a PPM experience, whereas most of the other ladies on SA don't know what kind of arrangements they want or are open to and need to be schmoozed into choosing one.

 

[chowzilla]

yup i've been scammed before like that..

At first I would say to stay away from girls who ask for $ for first meets, as very often its either a scam or a very superficial relationship. However what I've been doing is offering them a nice dinner instead, so at least we both can indulge lol. Doesn't always work but when it does, you're closer to finding something