Avoiding the Hazards of the Hobby / Industry
- Thread starter eastender
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Excellent
CS
Intuitively you did the right thing = created separation and left, reaching a safe haven.
This is a very important distinction. Street people have various physical weaknesses. The drug users are herky-jerky, some chronically congested, lack stamina - you will hardly ever see one run or walk briskly for any distance, have injuries or disabilities that have not healed properly or that were not rehabbed properly, from previous episodes
They use the element of surprise and proximity to do harm.
The vast majority of self - defense courses focus on defensive contact which means creating contact and proximity with the attacker, thereby fighting with the attackers strengths. Given the possibility that the attacker may transmit diseases to you this is potentially a very dangerous tactic. The key is to create separation and space so you can get away to a safe haven. Your safety is all that matters.
Getting back to the previous question you posed. Self - defense courses must include separation tactics, cardiovascular work, escape strategies amongst the curriculum topics.
CS
Intuitively you did the right thing = created separation and left, reaching a safe haven.
This is a very important distinction. Street people have various physical weaknesses. The drug users are herky-jerky, some chronically congested, lack stamina - you will hardly ever see one run or walk briskly for any distance, have injuries or disabilities that have not healed properly or that were not rehabbed properly, from previous episodes
They use the element of surprise and proximity to do harm.
The vast majority of self - defense courses focus on defensive contact which means creating contact and proximity with the attacker, thereby fighting with the attackers strengths. Given the possibility that the attacker may transmit diseases to you this is potentially a very dangerous tactic. The key is to create separation and space so you can get away to a safe haven. Your safety is all that matters.
Getting back to the previous question you posed. Self - defense courses must include separation tactics, cardiovascular work, escape strategies amongst the curriculum topics.
Hello all...mods too,
So I totally agree with all of this. Self-defense, as I was taught, is all about escape strategies...never bravado or misplaced heroism or however one might misuse it. The contact nature of it comes into play only when there are no other options and one must defend themselves to escape. That's all. This is what I said in two posts. So being in perfect agreement here the idea that either of us gave "dangerous" advice makes no sense. My only issue was with the implied characterization of all defense techniques and styles as a staged "choreography", which obviously cannot be used in real life. Since we totally agree, there is nothing more for me to add on this point.
Cheers,
Merlot
Assuming..............
Assuming you can't exit. Short answer would be that you shouldn't have gotten into the situation or the area to start but that would not solve the situation at hand.
Regardless of the specifics of the situation you have to appreciate that the attacker has one priority and killing you is not it because it it was the attacker would have executed the objective. Satisfy that one priority and potential exits may start opening.
Assuming you can't exit. Short answer would be that you shouldn't have gotten into the situation or the area to start but that would not solve the situation at hand.
Regardless of the specifics of the situation you have to appreciate that the attacker has one priority and killing you is not it because it it was the attacker would have executed the objective. Satisfy that one priority and potential exits may start opening.
So traveling in a well lit, well traveled area made the attacker less bold. Probably why I got away....
The scam motivation.......????
Scamming...............
Solve the riddle. Why do certain people habitually make bad choices? Apply the answer to societies ills and you might wind up richer than Bill Gates.
Years ago I had the pleasure of catching half/half salespeople who were scamming nickle and dime fundraising events. Basically draw tickets were sold. Then a draw was held. Half the proceeds went to the winner, half to the organization. Draw tickets were scaled in price - $2.00 each, 3 for $5.00, 7 for $10.00.Majority of purchases were 7 for $10.00 but siome vendors would sell 7 individual totalling $14.00 but report it as one 7 for $10.00 sale. For their efforts at the end of the shift they may have scammed $4.00 or $8.00 over 3-4 hours. All the vendors were volunteers. Maybe 10% were dishonest. Why they did it was beyond reason? With the same effort and intellectual output they could easily find more productive revenue streams.
Solve the riddle. Why do certain people habitually make bad choices? Apply the answer to societies ills and you might wind up richer than Bill Gates.
Years ago I had the pleasure of catching half/half salespeople who were scamming nickle and dime fundraising events. Basically draw tickets were sold. Then a draw was held. Half the proceeds went to the winner, half to the organization. Draw tickets were scaled in price - $2.00 each, 3 for $5.00, 7 for $10.00.Majority of purchases were 7 for $10.00 but siome vendors would sell 7 individual totalling $14.00 but report it as one 7 for $10.00 sale. For their efforts at the end of the shift they may have scammed $4.00 or $8.00 over 3-4 hours. All the vendors were volunteers. Maybe 10% were dishonest. Why they did it was beyond reason? With the same effort and intellectual output they could easily find more productive revenue streams.
Bold
No - the attacker had the boldness to attack. The well lit area gave you more time and options. Chances are you saw him earlier than you would have in a poorly lit area, re-acted quicker, recognized safe havens faster, etc. time and space are major allies.
No - the attacker had the boldness to attack. The well lit area gave you more time and options. Chances are you saw him earlier than you would have in a poorly lit area, re-acted quicker, recognized safe havens faster, etc. time and space are major allies.
There are people trained in elite military special forces. Then there are strictly commercial cops and wiseguys. Then there are the martial arts hobbyists.
Just like there are astronauts. Then there are strictly commercial airline pilots. And then private plane hobbyists.
As far as I see an elite military special forces guy whose training includes being drowned, choked and beaten into unconciousness is a hell of a lot diffrent than some guy in a Montreal Karate club.
Just like there are astronauts. Then there are strictly commercial airline pilots. And then private plane hobbyists.
As far as I see an elite military special forces guy whose training includes being drowned, choked and beaten into unconciousness is a hell of a lot diffrent than some guy in a Montreal Karate club.
True...............
True but you have to extend your analogy to the most important conclusion. The elite military special forces do not look for recruits in the local martial arts clubs because they know that the pool of candidates is inadequate.
True but you have to extend your analogy to the most important conclusion. The elite military special forces do not look for recruits in the local martial arts clubs because they know that the pool of candidates is inadequate.
Freakonomics
Didn't have the link at hand last night. Steven Levitt looked at various economic situations from a non-conventional perspective:
http://freakonomicsbook.com/
Scams and scamming should be viewed in the same light - see the petty drug dealer scenario. Essentially it comes down to a pick of delusion, ineptitude, plain stupidity, laziness or combinations of these and other factors.
Didn't have the link at hand last night. Steven Levitt looked at various economic situations from a non-conventional perspective:
http://freakonomicsbook.com/
Scams and scamming should be viewed in the same light - see the petty drug dealer scenario. Essentially it comes down to a pick of delusion, ineptitude, plain stupidity, laziness or combinations of these and other factors.
True. They look at at huge pools of recruits and volunteers. They then test, train, test, train intensively. Dangerous, painful, physically & psychologically demanding training. Only the best and most motivated make it. This is no bull shit here.
This is not a choreographed fight at some local karate or jujistu club where injuries are no worse than a soccer, hockey or football game and usually less.
Promises, Promises
Promises, promises. This is a very common everyday scam the takes advantage of people's desire for a better deal or a better life or simply help someone they are close to.
You may be looking for a used car and a friend knows someone who knows someone who sells re-conditioned cars. The person buys cars at auction to your specs - model, age, price point, patches them a bit and flips them to buyers without the applicable guarantees or warranties. Well things start going wrong and the "dealer" is always happy to fix the problem at a fraction of garage prices for cash. Very quickly once these bargain repairs are factored in you wind up paying alot more than from a legit vendor who offers guarantees and warranties. You complain and the subtle hints come out - "Thought we were friends, (insert group) should stick together, etc."
Likewise in relationships, played by both genders. You meet someone who looks like the ideal partner but they are between jobs. Soon the requests start - loan for a new outfit to go to a job interview FOLLOWED by a flimsey excuse that they hired a cousin - people that hire cousins do not bother advertising. Or investment offers - great deal, cash business. All the great new ideas or deals are snapped up by venture capitalists or banks not the unemployed/unemployable. If you refuse or question them the blackmail starts. I will tell our friends / your family about your drinking / substance abuse, I'll show the pictures, etc.
Anytime a relationship becomes contingent on you having to spend unexpected dollars, cut it short.
Promises, promises. This is a very common everyday scam the takes advantage of people's desire for a better deal or a better life or simply help someone they are close to.
You may be looking for a used car and a friend knows someone who knows someone who sells re-conditioned cars. The person buys cars at auction to your specs - model, age, price point, patches them a bit and flips them to buyers without the applicable guarantees or warranties. Well things start going wrong and the "dealer" is always happy to fix the problem at a fraction of garage prices for cash. Very quickly once these bargain repairs are factored in you wind up paying alot more than from a legit vendor who offers guarantees and warranties. You complain and the subtle hints come out - "Thought we were friends, (insert group) should stick together, etc."
Likewise in relationships, played by both genders. You meet someone who looks like the ideal partner but they are between jobs. Soon the requests start - loan for a new outfit to go to a job interview FOLLOWED by a flimsey excuse that they hired a cousin - people that hire cousins do not bother advertising. Or investment offers - great deal, cash business. All the great new ideas or deals are snapped up by venture capitalists or banks not the unemployed/unemployable. If you refuse or question them the blackmail starts. I will tell our friends / your family about your drinking / substance abuse, I'll show the pictures, etc.
Anytime a relationship becomes contingent on you having to spend unexpected dollars, cut it short.
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Promises, promises...........
Yes, like the guy you could meet, knowing the fact that you are escorting, faking to want to have a real relationship with you, wanting to help you to be able to stop escorting and to be able to dedicated yourself for your couple and proposing to invest into something and show you how to do money in other ways.... and after, when you know this is a scam, and want your money back, he could state: "if you dare to do something, I will contact your family to tell them what you do for a living..."
The end of the story: Less money (couple a thousands...), no boyfriend
... and to keep in mind to not ever tell to someone that I am escorting. That's opening the door to problems. And to focuse on my goals in life, and forget to have a relationship during the time I am achieving them.
ps That's an old story, more than 2 years old... I won't never forget, but beleive me, I am not the only escort to have been scam by a guy supposely in love or wanting to have a serious relationship. That's a common story.
ps 2: I was knowing this guy from 2 years before I started to escorting, he was really handsome, well mannered, and showing to have success in life... That was my own error to want something clear and to tell him I was escorting... He just take advantage of it...
Yes, like the guy you could meet, knowing the fact that you are escorting, faking to want to have a real relationship with you, wanting to help you to be able to stop escorting and to be able to dedicated yourself for your couple and proposing to invest into something and show you how to do money in other ways.... and after, when you know this is a scam, and want your money back, he could state: "if you dare to do something, I will contact your family to tell them what you do for a living..."
The end of the story: Less money (couple a thousands...), no boyfriend
... and to keep in mind to not ever tell to someone that I am escorting. That's opening the door to problems. And to focuse on my goals in life, and forget to have a relationship during the time I am achieving them.ps That's an old story, more than 2 years old... I won't never forget, but beleive me, I am not the only escort to have been scam by a guy supposely in love or wanting to have a serious relationship. That's a common story.
ps 2: I was knowing this guy from 2 years before I started to escorting, he was really handsome, well mannered, and showing to have success in life... That was my own error to want something clear and to tell him I was escorting... He just take advantage of it...
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I agree with those who mentioned that the karate classes are giving soccer moms a false sense of security. I don't care if you have a black belt. If you never had to kick someone's ass to save your own then your black belt is useless. I have seen these so called martial arts experts "freeze up" when confronted with an actual scene to deal with in real life, more than once. I am a very peaceful person and have never started a physical confrontation in my life (as an adult) but I am hard-wired with a very strong awareness of what's around me and when I'm confronted my adrenaline and reflexes take over. There have been a couple occaisions over the years where this has proved handy. I think I may have written about one or two here in the past... I'm lucky nobody ever came at me with a gun. Don't know what would happen then... It's very hard for me to "hand over my money peacefully" even though we all know this is usually the best thing to do. When I sense danger it's like I revert to my animalistic responses and my thinking brain shuts down temporarily. In those situations I get overwhelmed with anger, not fear. Anyone else experience this? Any advice?
BD
BD
Any chance we could move past arguments as to who's the harder man, and focus on the rest of the thread, which has been interesting and possibly useful?
Not to cast aspersions, really, but most of the really dangerous people I've met haven't made any effort to communicate that fact. Or felt the need to comment on others. But, and I stress this "but," that's my experience (limited infantry experience mostly), your mileage may well vary.
Not to cast aspersions, really, but most of the really dangerous people I've met haven't made any effort to communicate that fact. Or felt the need to comment on others. But, and I stress this "but," that's my experience (limited infantry experience mostly), your mileage may well vary.
Promises, promises...........
Yes, like the guy you could meet, knowing the fact that you are escorting, faking to want to have a real relationship with you, wanting to help you to be able to stop escorting and to be able to dedicated yourself for your couple and proposing to invest into something and show you how to do money in other ways.... and after, when you know this is a scam, and want your money back, he could state: "if you dare to do something, I will contact your family to tell them what you do for a living..."
The end of the story: Less money (couple a thousands...), no boyfriend
ps That's an old story, more than 2 years old... I won't never forget, but beleive me, I am not the only escort to have been scam by a guy supposely in love or wanting to have a serious relationship. That's a common story.
ps 2: I was knowing this guy from 2 years before I started to escorting, he was really handsome, well mannered, and showing to have success in life... That was my own error to want something clear and to tell him I was escorting... He just take advantage of it...
Is it possible that some situations don't start out being scams, but rather develop that way as two parties progress further into a "relationship"? Whether it be business or personal, let's face it in the SP/escorting/client business the lines get blurred, crossed, mixed, etc. To be more clear: Both the escort and/or client can have the best of intentions, but because of human weaknesses the situation turns into a "scam". Many times people use all kind of "justifications" to clear themselves of guilt. They even sometimes totally convince themselves where truth becomes a matter of perception. Sometimes the real question is how long to hang onto the "negativity" of the "scam" instead of acceptance and personal release?
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Yeah, for real. But, you know, the Internet is a breeding ground for tough guys, protected by distance, of course. One guy I know was laughing his ass off at some of the posts here from people fronting to be in the know about the recent shooting in NDG.
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I totally agree with Techman here, I don't think that knowing martial arts would have helped at all in my situation.
I do agree with EE's basic posts. In my case I was way too trusting in meeting this girl in circumstances outside my control : her car, her suggested meeting spot.
Moreover, I wasn't thinking very straight in agreeing to unusual and, in retrospect, suspicious parameters regarding our meeting.
I guess I was just looking more for suggestions regarding hotels, cellphones, etc regarding security. I was even thinking that a security section on MERB would be useful.
*-*-*-*-*
PS :
Just to say that now that a few weeks have passed I'm not quite as paranoid as I was. I don't think you can be 100% safe in this activity but there are risks in other activities too.
I would say that I definitely won't even meet an escort outside the hotel room context in future, I will also look into security as a prime consideration in hotel from now on (cards for elevators, cameras, security guards, etc).
Meeting girls who are "retired" and are not advertised may also be over for me.
Unfortunately I will most likely also be too frightened to go out at night for awhile. That is irrational I think but sometimes it is hard to be rational.
The fact is that the streets of Montreal are very safe, been out in the dark alone since I was in my early teens. It is the safety of Montreal streets that made me feel sure what happened to me was not a coincidence.
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