Random thoughts: What’s on your mind lately? Part 2

[Lunaseraphim]

I loved my long term GF and mother of my one year old until while I was driving she punched me in the head. Didn't feel it but it sure as fuck killed the love. Ffw a year or two and the wild attacks and scratches, the screaming. The cops taking ME away when I was covered in marks and didn't lift a finger. Then a few months later she was taken away when the neighbors called the cops for a second time. Or throwing a knife at my back, luckily it bounced off. Nothing for a few years then recently trying to attack me when I had the baby in my arms. I'm a body builder, she's an ex-cheerleader and (physically) beautiful. Yeah it ain't always what it looks like. Took until now for something to give and it's me booking SWs in secret, looking to get a peid a terre for my own rendezvous.

This is terrible, I'm really sorry to hear that. That's definitely an abusive relationship.. I'd be trying to get out of it as well. Definitely try to find help and legal options to keep your child because that baby is not safe with her, either.

It isn't always what it looks like. I have a friend who's 40 now, when he was 26 he dated a 17 year old girl which he shouldn't have, the interesting part is that she was the abusive one, so sometimes roles really are reversed. She was traumatized and really unwell mentally, and physically stronger than him. She would hit him and actually forced him to have sex with her really often, to the point where he was turned off by sex for 5 years. So yeah, I believe these stories.

What I said earlier in the thread was about statistics, women are commonly victims of domestic violence but it happens that men are the victims as well and they need the same amount of care and help. I hope no one felt invalidated.

 

[MCTJ]

I've always wondered how a male victim of domestic violence would be treated by the police. We've come to realize that women have not been historically treated well, but it is now clear than great progress has been made. If a man who is a victim of violence manages to step on his male ego to complain to the police, will he be taken seriously?

Now, here is something that shocked me when I learned it, and feel free to fact check me: the scientific consensus is that the prevalence of female on male vs. male on female domestic violence is roughly the same. What is subject to debate is whether the severity is the same, and whether women act more frequently in self-defense than men. It should be noted that in the specific case of spousal homicide, it is overwhelmingly males who are the perpetrators.

It would appear that the topic of intimate violence against men is a topic that truly no one talks about, except in rare academic circles.

 

[LeDodo]

I've always wondered how a male victim of domestic violence would be treated by the police. We've come to realize that women have not been historically treated well, but it is now clear than great progress has been made. If a man who is a victim of violence manages to step on his male ego to complain to the police, will he be taken seriously?

Now, here is something that shocked me when I learned it, and feel free to fact check me: the scientific consensus is that the prevalence of female on male vs. male on female domestic violence is roughly the same. What is subject to debate is whether the severity is the same, and whether women act more frequently in self-defense than men. It should be noted that in the specific case of spousal homicide, it is overwhelmingly males who are the perpetrators.

It would appear that the topic of intimate violence against men is a topic that truly no one talks about, except in rare academic circles.

Physical violence might be easier to document but psychological violence is harder to defend.

 

[Lunaseraphim]

I've always wondered how a male victim of domestic violence would be treated by the police. We've come to realize that women have not been historically treated well, but it is now clear than great progress has been made. If a man who is a victim of violence manages to step on his male ego to complain to the police, will he be taken seriously?

Now, here is something that shocked me when I learned it, and feel free to fact check me: the scientific consensus is that the prevalence of female on male vs. male on female domestic violence is roughly the same. What is subject to debate is whether the severity is the same, and whether women act more frequently in self-defense than men. It should be noted that in the specific case of spousal homicide, it is overwhelmingly males who are the perpetrators.

It would appear that the topic of intimate violence against men is a topic that truly no one talks about, except in rare academic circles.

May I ask where you found out about this? I think it definitely should be talked about, but in the academic circles I've been in, I've heard otherwise. I think it also on the type of domestic abuse.. If psychological violence counts is included in domestic violence, I wouldn't be surprised if that is the truth, but for physical and sexual violence I'm not so sure if that's the case...

Also when you are talking about ''women acting in self defense'', it makes me wonder how the research you're talking about was conducted. In a lot of cases of domestic abuse, the victim ends up snapping and maybe at some point hitting back or retaliating.. There are no ''perfect victims''. I don't think a woman who eventually hits her husband back who is constantly beating her up is the abuser here. There's also a very commonly known phenomenon called DARVO, where an abuser will victimize themselves and turn everyone against the victim and eventually convince them that he is the perpetrator. This is actually very common. Some people are really manipulative and it's actually hard to know who to believe. Most abusers I've met convinced everyone they were the actual victims.. I usually give people the benefit of the doubt until I figured out that actually yes they were the aggressor.

Also, the police has recently gotten better at handling cases of domestic violence recently but historically that hasn't always been the case. Restraining orders often do nothing, and historically often the police hasn't taken violence seriously at all and victims aren't believed or are blamed. (specially if they defended themselves or acted in a way that wasn't like the pure perfect innocent victim).. I definitely think all types of violence should be talked about, and men should feel safer to come forward if they've experienced violence. It's hard to know what the statistics really are because very few people actually report to the police. I think for me it's hard to believe that the prevalence is roughly the same, not because I'm a dirty feminist who hates men (I am not and I'm annoyed I have to spell it out constantly), but because of personal experience and things I've witnessed in my personal life on multiple occasion. I have however witnessed domestic abuse against men, from both women and men, and it does exist.

I'm not really sure that I want to talk about this subject openly on this forum because I have many haters here and people who think I complain for nothing or write too long paragraphs but I'd be down to discuss this elsewhere. I also by the way would never invalidate a man who has been the victim of abuse, he deserves just as much support as a woman.

 

[Lunaseraphim]

Physical violence might be easier to document but psychological violence is harder to defend.

Psychological violence can also be harder to define. A lot of things that people do in dating situations are normalized but could be qualified as psychological or emotional abuse, like putting someone down constantly (negging), belittling them, restricting their freedom, financial abuse, gaslighting, repeated cheating etc. I think some things are accepted as ''boys will be boys'' or ''oh he's just a fuck boy'' or ''it's a situationship don't take it too seriously''.. but I feel like there are women who psychologically abuse other women and men for sure. A lot of ''mean girl'' stuff is normalized and in my personal life I've found that I was often bullied by women a lot more than men...

 

[Rebaynia]

I've always wondered how a male victim of domestic violence would be treated by the police. We've come to realize that women have not been historically treated well, but it is now clear than great progress has been made. If a man who is a victim of violence manages to step on his male ego to complain to the police, will he be taken seriously?

Now, here is something that shocked me when I learned it, and feel free to fact check me: the scientific consensus is that the prevalence of female on male vs. male on female domestic violence is roughly the same. What is subject to debate is whether the severity is the same, and whether women act more frequently in self-defense than men. It should be noted that in the specific case of spousal homicide, it is overwhelmingly males who are the perpetrators.

It would appear that the topic of intimate violence against men is a topic that truly no one talks about, except in rare academic circles.

Unfortunately, when it comes to talking to cops about domestic violence, often the instigator is calm and cool and charismatic, when delivering their stories, while victims can often be erratic and shaken and harder to be clear about what they are trying to express. From my understanding of recounted tales from friends when cops did show up.
Often the cops seem more likely to take the side of the calmer person, makeing victims feel unheard, and not believed.

Unfortunately often people in these kinds of relationships feel trapped and no way out, or choose to stick around to protect kids from the wrath that might veer twords them if the one receiving the violence weren't around to take it. Choosing to stick around to take it themselves so kids are never left alone with the abusive parent. (Even in the case of spousal abuse, parents have equal rights. Threw other family members, I have seen shared custody happen, even if the risk is there, until it does inevitably victimize the child.)

 

[Lunaseraphim]

Unfortunately, when it comes to talking to cops about domestic violence, often the instigator is calm and cool and charismatic, when delivering their stories, while victims can often be erratic and shaken and harder to be clear about what they are trying to express. From my understanding of recounted tales from friends when cops did show up.
Often the cops seem more likely to take the side of the calmer person, makeing victims feel unheard, and not believed.

Unfortunately often people in these kinds of relationships feel trapped and no way out, or choose to stick around to protect kids from the wrath that might veer twords them if the one receiving the violence weren't around to take it. Choosing to stick around to take it themselves so kids are never left alone with the abusive parent. (Even in the case of spousal abuse, parents have equal rights, and have seen shared custody happen even if the risk is there.)

Yes, exactly. And if a woman ends up retaliating, her credibility gets lowered too, which is why I have a hard time believing these ''scientific facts''. In a lot of situations of domestic violence, things get toxic and the victim may start acting not like herself (or himself) because they are in a constant state of fight or flight. I don't want to give personal examples because it's not the right place to discuss this, but it's just often what happens.. A lot of situations get described as ''mutually abusive'' because the woman ends up responding instead of being a passive victim or leaving. It's like you said often people stay in these relationships because they are being convinced by their abuser that this person will change, or that the abuse is their fault.. Or the abuser will use every little thing the person wrong to turn THEMSELVES into the victim. Often abusers come back with many promises and gifts and sweet things, only to become more abusive again.

 

[LeDodo]

Psychological violence can also be harder to define. A lot of things that people do in dating situations are normalized but could be qualified as psychological or emotional abuse, like putting someone down constantly (negging), belittling them, restricting their freedom, financial abuse, gaslighting, repeated cheating etc. I think some things are accepted as ''boys will be boys'' or ''oh he's just a fuck boy'' or ''it's a situationship don't take it too seriously''.. but I feel like there are women who psychologically abuse other women and men for sure. A lot of ''mean girl'' stuff is normalized and in my personal life I've found that I was often bullied by women a lot more than men...

Yes harder to defend and even harder to define!
It's a long shot to say that but physical violence even it looks like "easier" to report, there are most of the time if not always a lot of psychological violence behind. Ones might think that someone being physically abused would report it and it is obvious to do so but the psychological abuse behind makes it less obvious and help from outsiders is needed.
And yes abuse is gender neutral.

As for women to women relationship it's really a bummer ...

 

[Lunaseraphim]

Yes harder to defend and even harder to define!
It's a long shot to say that but physical violence even it looks like "easier" to report, there are most of the time if not always a lot of psychological violence behind. Ones might think that someone being physically abused would report it and it is obvious to do so but the psychological abuse behind makes it less obvious and help from outsiders is needed.
And yes abuse is gender neutral.

As for women to women relationship it's really a bummer ...

Physical abuse isn't reported as often as people think it is tho. Really often people hide it. I think some people think women are waiting for the one thing to happen and will be like ''EUREKA ITS TIME TO CALL THE COPS'' but in reality, abusive relationships are complex. When you are abused by someone often it's someone you love who has other qualities. Sometimes people are pushed to report it, but they will still go back to the relationship because there is emotional attachment involved.. Really often also abusers are careful not to bruise.

Abuse is never okay, psychological abuse is present in every type of relationship and I have experienced bullying by women in friend groups or among colleagues that was very weird and normalized or even encouraged. In dating situations, really poor behavior that could be qualified as abusive or at least as really shitty is normalized, and I see it more often with men unfortunately. Yes abuse is technically gender neutral, but I do think it's more common for men to be abusive in romantic relationships. I've been bullied by women who were very nice to their boyfriends or to the men around them and tried really hard to appeal to men... That doesn't mean men who experience abuse at the hands of women should be invalidated or feel attacked when we mention this..

I'd be ready to believe that both men and women are equally abusive towards their children tho..

I think psychological and emotional abuse are serious, but they aren't likely to give you an unwanted pregnancy, a broken bone, a blackeye, a visit to the hospital, scars you will see on your body your whole life, bruises you have to hide from people, etc. Often also physical and sexual violence in a relationship starts with psychological abuse and escalates from there.

 

[Alucard87]

The first time (of two) cops ever came to my house I had recorded her attacking me, which only made her angrier btw. They took me away as I refused to show them the recording, I didn't want to rat so to speak. The next time they came they knew by then that she was the problem and took her immediately. Luckily both times my teenage son was at his mother's so he never knew, but now he's in college doing police technology. Hopefully he never looks up my mug shot from this crap.

I'm not looking for help or in some sad situation. I'm a successful business owner and am having a blast booking SWs , even possibly going to sneak away on a vacation with one haha life's good.

 

[Lunaseraphim]

The first time (of two) cops ever came to my house I had recorded her attacking me, which only made her angrier btw. They took me away as I refused to show them the recording, I didn't want to rat so to speak. The next time they came they knew by then that she was the problem and took her immediately. Luckily both times my teenage son was at his mother's so he never knew, but now he's in college doing police technology. Hopefully he never looks up my mug shot from this crap.

I'm not looking for help or in some sad situation. I'm a successful business owner and am having a blast booking SWs , even possibly going to sneak away on a vacation with one haha life's good.

I'm glad you're having a good time

 

[MCTJ]

May I ask where you found out about this? I think it definitely should be talked about, but in the academic circles I've been in, I've heard otherwise. I think it also on the type of domestic abuse.. If psychological violence counts is included in domestic violence, I wouldn't be surprised if that is the truth, but for physical and sexual violence I'm not so sure if that's the case...

I should have added more details since it is a complicated and highly charged topic. To clarify, I was referring to acts of physical violence only. The conclusion that these acts are as frequent in the man to woman direction as the opposite comes from this (unfortunately dated) meta-analysis (which is review of all research published on a given topic that meet certain criteria of inclusion determined by the author, in this case more than 500 studies from 1976 to 1997).

Archer, J. (2000). Sex differences in aggression between heterosexual partners: A meta-analytic review. Psychological Bulletin, 126(5), 651–680. (https://psycnet.apa.org/doiLanding?doi=10.1037/0033-2909.126.5.651 (PDF available on request))

More recent data (2016-2017) can be found in this CDC report (https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/pdf/nisvs/NISVSReportonIPV_2022.pdf) showing again an equal prevalence for both sexes

Slightly more than 2 in 5 women (42.0% or 52 million) in the United States reported experiencing any physical violence by an intimate partner in their lifetime (Table 1).

More than 2 in 5 men (42.3% or 49.9 million) in the United States reported experiencing any physical violence by an intimate partner in their lifetime (Table 2).

Since I have done only a limited amount of reading on this topic and that I am not an expert, I asked my favorite AI assistant to put this data in perspective. Here are some key points:

• Many surveys rely on act-based checklists (e.g., the Conflict Tactics Scale) that count discrete acts of aggression—slapping, punching, pushing—without capturing motive, context, or fear.
• Women are significantly more likely to sustain injuries, experience fear, and seek medical or legal help after IPV—evidence that male-perpetrated violence often causes greater harm.
• Men face unique barriers to reporting—social stigma, disbelief by authorities, and lack of specialized services—which can mask the true extent of female-perpetrated harm.

 

[Lunaseraphim]

I should have added more details since it is a complicated and highly charged topic. To clarify, I was referring to acts of physical violence only. The conclusion that these acts are as frequent in the man to woman direction as the opposite comes from this (unfortunately dated) meta-analysis (which is review of all research published on a given topic that meet certain criteria of inclusion determined by the author, in this case more than 500 studies from 1976 to 1997).

Archer, J. (2000). Sex differences in aggression between heterosexual partners: A meta-analytic review. Psychological Bulletin, 126(5), 651–680. (https://psycnet.apa.org/doiLanding?doi=10.1037/0033-2909.126.5.651 (PDF available on request))

More recent data (2016-2017) can be found in this CDC report (https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/pdf/nisvs/NISVSReportonIPV_2022.pdf) showing again an equal prevalence for both sexes




Since I have done only a limited amount of reading on this topic and that I am not an expert, I asked my favorite AI assistant to put this data in perspective. Here are some key points:

• Many surveys rely on act-based checklists (e.g., the Conflict Tactics Scale) that count discrete acts of aggression—slapping, punching, pushing—without capturing motive, context, or fear.
• Women are significantly more likely to sustain injuries, experience fear, and seek medical or legal help after IPV—evidence that male-perpetrated violence often causes greater harm.
• Men face unique barriers to reporting—social stigma, disbelief by authorities, and lack of specialized services—which can mask the true extent of female-perpetrated harm.

I'm always a bit wary of these studies. I agree with your AI friend, I don't doubt that men face stigma and barriers to reporting, but I think there aren't enough details for anything to be conclusive. My issue with this is that there can't be a scientific way to prove that there is an exact equal amount of physical violence and what percentage of these acts of violence is retaliation..

I have a bunch of questions when reading this. Who are the people who were interviewed for this.. from what demographic, over what period of time.. were the people interviewed average couples? How did they gather this data? Who accepted giving details on their relationship? How were these studies conducted? This isn't like a science experiment conducted in a lab..

I do think there's something I wasn't considering which is that it can be considered somewhat socially acceptable for a woman to slap a man of he insults her or to push him if he's harassing her, but not the way around. I also guess it's like you're saying since a man is less likely to sustain injury it may not be perceived as a serious crime.

 

[LeDodo]

Imagine if social media closed everyday at 6pm like a shop ... We will all be forced to socialize with family, friends, go outside, do some activities ...

 

[ChloeCoeur]

Imagine if social media closed everyday at 6pm like a shop ... We will all be forced to socialize with family, friends, go outside, do some activities ...

I weirdly love this idea

 

[Lunaseraphim]

Imagine if social media closed everyday at 6pm like a shop ... We will all be forced to socialize with family, friends, go outside, do some activities ...

It should be turning off between 4 and 10pm.. or something like that

 

[jeffmathers]

I weirdly love this idea

I like this idea also

 

[jeffmathers]

It should be turning off between 4 and 10pm.. or something like that

what if social media was off from 11pm to 6am?

 

[Enjoying life]

May I ask where you found out about this? I think it definitely should be talked about, but in the academic circles I've been in, I've heard otherwise. I think it also on the type of domestic abuse.. If psychological violence counts is included in domestic violence, I wouldn't be surprised if that is the truth, but for physical and sexual violence I'm not so sure if that's the case...

Also when you are talking about ''women acting in self defense'', it makes me wonder how the research you're talking about was conducted. In a lot of cases of domestic abuse, the victim ends up snapping and maybe at some point hitting back or retaliating.. There are no ''perfect victims''. I don't think a woman who eventually hits her husband back who is constantly beating her up is the abuser here. There's also a very commonly known phenomenon called DARVO, where an abuser will victimize themselves and turn everyone against the victim and eventually convince them that he is the perpetrator. This is actually very common. Some people are really manipulative and it's actually hard to know who to believe. Most abusers I've met convinced everyone they were the actual victims.. I usually give people the benefit of the doubt until I figured out that actually yes they were the aggressor.

Also, the police has recently gotten better at handling cases of domestic violence recently but historically that hasn't always been the case. Restraining orders often do nothing, and historically often the police hasn't taken violence seriously at all and victims aren't believed or are blamed. (specially if they defended themselves or acted in a way that wasn't like the pure perfect innocent victim).. I definitely think all types of violence should be talked about, and men should feel safer to come forward if they've experienced violence. It's hard to know what the statistics really are because very few people actually report to the police. I think for me it's hard to believe that the prevalence is roughly the same, not because I'm a dirty feminist who hates men (I am not and I'm annoyed I have to spell it out constantly), but because of personal experience and things I've witnessed in my personal life on multiple occasion. I have however witnessed domestic abuse against men, from both women and men, and it does exist.

I'm not really sure that I want to talk about this subject openly on this forum because I have many haters here and people who think I complain for nothing or write too long paragraphs but I'd be down to discuss this elsewhere. I also by the way would never invalidate a man who has been the victim of abuse, he deserves just as much support as a woman.

I went through emotional abuse with a woman! I handed it well as she cried then was a mean firecracker just like that !

 

[Rebaynia]

Imagine if social media closed everyday at 6pm like a shop ... We will all be forced to socialize with family, friends, go outside, do some activities ...

And those who work until 6pm would never get to see social media.