Money up front, or at the end?

philonius said:

The only part she wasn't in agreement with was with randos on LL (which I've made clear I haven't tried), and that she understands that perspective from the client side but she prefers it up front, as will every provider (whether they require it upfront or not). Call it simping or whatever you like, I give zero fucks about anyone's opinion on any online forum and actually, just being on this board should be enough for most sps to second guess seeing anyone here IRL, if we're being completely honest. I'd rather be what I think is decent and called a white knight etc than whatever the opposite of that is. Again, if I had to compromise that in order to potentially save a few bucks from a 'mercenary' (who hurt you.. lol) then I probably would just get out of this altogether.

We're gonna be on either side of this, obv, so I'm not looking to change your (or anyone elses) opinion but the only thing I actually want to know is: What would you withhold the money from an sp for? If they said XYZ and you only got XY would you retain a percentage? How much time off your alloted session would be enough to take back money? I geniunely want to know bc the idea is crazy to me.

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Once again, that's not what I said, and I don't know why you insist on misintepreting what I do say. You're in such a rush to be judgmental all the time that I'm not sure you're actually reading stuff before you respond. I specifically said that I was not talking about you simping or attacking ladies practices. that's pretty clear, I think.

As for "witholding cash" presumably when you been around a bit longer you'll see examples of it. There's lot's of reasons, ranging from not providing extras that have been paid for to getting the "emergency phone call" and variants leading to an early exit, to immediately being abandoned after a pop no matter how much time you've paid for, to being spaced way the fuck out on drugs or drunk or sick and unable to provide services and the list goes on and on and on. There's dozens, maybe hundreds of reasons, some more serious than others. Some are just routine scams to fool newbies. You'll see a bunch of them over time, I promise. How you choose to respond is up to you.

I understand why there's a fear of paying upfront when a situation seems sketchy, a lot of clients here have said that they were robbed, but there are solutions to prevent this from happening. For one, avoiding situations that seem sketchy. I have been a provider who only advertised on leolist and had no reviews.. I did ask for the money upfront but it was also clear that nobody else was there but me, the bed was in sight for the client and I left the money on my desk until they left to make sure they felt safe.

And we're kinda circling back to the issue which is affecting both clients and providers that there are a lot of scammers and thieves on certain platfoms.. But there are tools at client's disposal to find out if a provider is legit or not, like this website. I feel like there are also cues and red flags on the ads themselves.. Like situations that seem too good to be true, etc. If you don't want to take risk you can choose to see reviewed providers, providers who have a strong social media presence, go to reputable MP's and hire girls from agencies. You won't run into that problem. If you arrive and get a bad vibe, you can also leave and choose not to pay.

At the end of the day we all do everything differently. It's fine if some providers choose to get paid at the end and it's fine if some providers want to be paid upfront. Just like it's fine to ask for a deposit, and it's fine not to ask for one. In over 3 years of being a SP only 1 client told me he refused to pay upfront, and one client made a fuss about it (so I didn't ask him to pay upfront the 2nd time I saw him, cause I already knew him, problem solved) We all have our ways of staying safe as SP and it's all okay. Obviously trust is important but you can't trust someone you just had one conversation over text with once. Trust is acquired.

urquell said:

As for "witholding cash" presumably when you been around a bit longer you'll see examples of it. There's lot's of reasons, ranging from not providing extras that have been paid for to getting the "emergency phone call" and variants leading to an early exit, to immediately being abandoned after a pop no matter how much time you've paid for, to being spaced way the fuck out on drugs or drunk or sick and unable to provide services and the list goes on and on and on. There's dozens, maybe hundreds of reasons, some more serious than others. Some are just routine scams to fool newbies. You'll see a bunch of them over time, I promise. How you choose to respond is up to you.

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You've been burned a bunch of times, it sounds like, and that sucks but I guess I would be really surprised to find myself in any of the situations you're describing. There's an inherent risk to all of this, so if it did happen I would probably just take my licks, chalk up a loss, and make a more informed decision moving forward, if possible. If it happened over and over I'd really just have to reevaluate this whole lifestyle. I must be on an insane win streak or blessed by the gods of 'mongering' I guess.

Bottom line is: a client honesty is subjective. We can tell and say we will honor the donation and have (almost) nothing to lose if we don't (e.g. the bad experiences SP have shared). Whereas a SP is running a business so her respect regarding her services will be reflected accordingly. But let's exclude the scammers.

LeDodo said:

Bottom line is: a client honesty is subjective. We can tell and say we will honor the donation and have (almost) nothing to lose if we don't (e.g. the bad experiences SP have shared). Whereas a SP is running a business so her respect regarding her services will be reflected accordingly. But let's exclude the scammers.

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The SP scamming you has zero to lose also.
She will get a reputation to reflect what she is a scammer lol.
These SP change their names weekly and their phone numbers also.
Luckily there are many honest clients and also SP and hopefully they are all smart enough and experienced enough to sort through the bullshit and scammers and are able to find each other.
This is why Merb was created and what it should be all about.

Fradi said:

These SP change their names weekly and their phone numbers also.

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Proud to be in the game this long without “rebranding” or changing names 7483 times. You know what it means when a SP changes her name more than once even … she sucks. And not the good kinda suck.
I’ll let my cocky, petty self out now.

Fradi said:

The SP scamming you has zero to lose also.
She will get a reputation to reflect what she is a scammer lol.
These SP change their names weekly and their phone numbers also.
Luckily there are many honest clients and also SP and hopefully they are all smart enough and experienced enough to sort through the bullshit and scammers and are able to find each other.
This is why Merb was created and what it should be all about.

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I agree. I meant by excluding the scammers that with enough due diligence you should be able to spot them. But if you're a gambler, it's best to keep your defeats for yourself and not taint "normal" SP with your bad experiences/experiments.
I don't like people blaming a population because of exceptions.

Valentina Amante said:

Proud to be in the game this long without “rebranding” or changing names 7483 times. You know what it means when a SP changes her name more than once even … she sucks. And not the good kinda suck.
I’ll let my cocky, petty self out now.

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Oh for that I heard of SP harassment leading to name change, so there is still valid reasons to name change

LeDodo said:

Oh for that I heard of SP harassment leading to name change, so there is still valid reasons to name change

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Absolutely yes!! Not negating this important factor as well.
However, constant name changes is indeed a red flag - the reviews speak for themselves! And having that much bad luck / harassment is questionable at some point. If true, harassment shouldn’t tarnish a SPs reputation and it should be dealt with LE.

For outcalls, I usually leave the donation out in plain sight, in an envelope, if I have one. And let the lady decide if she wishes to collect it before or afterwards.

For incalls, it always feels awkward to me, to hand a woman a wad of cash when you 1st meet, so I usually provide the donation at the end, but all my incalls have been with agencies also.

No preference either way, but after reading these comments though, I think I will go to incalls better prepared, with a discreet envelope or card, and place the donation on the table at the beginning, if that helps put everyones mind at ease.

To me the upfront payment mostly happen at the mp's, as for incalls i rarely was asked for upfront, but honestly i don't care there is too much retarded guys that try to scam sp's so that should be mendatory upfront payment to avoid problems.
For the guys saying what if i don't get good services, it doesn't matter you need to pay anyway then you can choose to give an extra tip at the end.
When an sp's at incall ask me for upfront depends on my feelings i give extra tips as well and i was never deveived
P.s. Im far from beeing a white knight business is business don't scam people.

philonius said:

You've been burned a bunch of times, it sounds like, and that sucks but I guess I would be really surprised to find myself in any of the situations you're describing. There's an inherent risk to all of this, so if it did happen I would probably just take my licks, chalk up a loss, and make a more informed decision moving forward, if possible. If it happened over and over I'd really just have to reevaluate this whole lifestyle. I must be on an insane win streak or blessed by the gods of 'mongering' I guess.

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I don't think you're really getting the implications of what we're discussing here in this thread. I don't get burned at all. Ever. I lost some inconsequential cash from silly mistakes when I started but I've never been burned in any real way. I have had many people try to scam me though. The reason I never get burned is because I maintain control of the cash. I've been around and I've been on a lot of boards for a lot of different places. I have had hundreds of conversations online and IRL with people who have been robbed or scammed in any of a number of ways and I listened and I learned from them and their good advice has helped me develop my way of doing things, a perspective which I can share with others to do with as they will, including you if you like. If you don't pay deposits and don't pay cash up front then you quite literally can't be scammed or played. I can be robbed, but I can't be swindled. It all boils down to a few simple things. You discuss what you want up front, in detail and agree to a price. Never accept "you decide" or "whatever you think is fair" as an answer otherwise you will overpay or argue or both. Never pay deposits. When you go to your session take cash in the right amount so you don't need change and leave your wallet somewhere secure. Don't pay up front. Enjoy the session. Pay the girl everything promised. Tip if so inclined. If you do that you can never be scammed and can never be robbed of more than the cash in your pocket without extraordinary circumstances. OK, so with that you can never be scammed, however, you can relax any or all of those rules depending on where your girl comfort/risk level is. That's up to you, do as you like.

Not all reasons for retaining cash are nefarious though, and I'm going to give you a real life example as food for thought. You can handle it a whole bunch of different ways depending on your character and whether you paid up front or not. No wrong answers. You make a date with a girl, show up at her place. Pay her first or not. Go into the bedroom and you notice that the bed has bedbugs. If you elect to proceed you can, but if you don't she wants to be paid anyway. She's there and she's ready to go. Up to you. The obvious difference here is who's in control of the decision.

LeDodo said:

I agree. I meant by excluding the scammers that with enough due diligence you should be able to spot them. But if you're a gambler, it's best to keep your defeats for yourself and not taint "normal" SP with your bad experiences/experiments.
I don't like people blaming a population because of exceptions.

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It's not best to keep defeats to yourself. If you know about a scammer then warning the community of the danger is the best thing you can do for the community, and one of the reasons for places like MERB. Keeping it to yourself hides embarrassment but doesn't help anyone else avoid the same danger.

urquell said:

It's not best to keep defeats to yourself. If you know about a scammer then warning the community of the danger is the best thing you can do for the community, and one of the reasons for places like MERB. Keeping it to yourself hides embarrassment but doesn't help anyone else avoid the same danger.

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It's fine and it's the right thing to do to share the scammers in the community. My point was more to not include the scammers as part of the SP community who are trying to make a honest living out of it.

I wouldn't want to be the novice hobbyist who's gonna have to go through the 90+ replies (and counting)... When I was myself a "baby hobbyist" (lol) I remember reading that payment upfront was recommended. Since I only use the services of reputable agencies and indies, this is what I have always done, and I have never been robbed or scammed.

P.S: of course I forgot several times to pay upfront, especially with regulars.

Everyone should just do as they are comfortable. Another thing I do at the beginning of any session with a new girl is ask about 1: restrictions so I know not what to do and 2: extras. I find it very irritating when a lady is doing her best to make me orgasm during BBBJ and then suddenly says CIM is extra. Or Im getting close to the V and she says DATY is extra. I want to know all the extras before I start so I can avoid them. I recently had a lady say the orgasming anywhere on her body was extra. I almost left, since I think that is a bit extreme. But I was happy I asked.

A well informed consumer makes the best choices.

tor
PS: this thread seems pretty well beaten

Tor1393 said:

Everyone should just do as they are comfortable. Another thing I do at the beginning of any session with a new girl is ask about 1: restrictions so I know not what to do and 2: extras. I find it very irritating when a lady is doing her best to make me orgasm during BBBJ and then suddenly says CIM is extra. Or Im getting close to the V and she says DATY is extra. I want to know all the extras before I start so I can avoid them. I recently had a lady say the orgasming anywhere on her body was extra. I almost left, since I think that is a bit extreme. But I was happy I asked.

A well informed consumer makes the best choices.

tor
PS: this thread seems pretty well beaten

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This is refreshing to read!
Too many people enter the hobby thinking they know the acronyms or overlook them.
I usually make sure they know exactly what they are (I have them all decoded on my website) but some don’t read at all.
Sometimes when I take for granted that a client knows … is when I get a surprise finger in my fkn ass while in doggy or CIM.
LIKE JFC. READ / ASK BEFORE. It’s so fkn irritating also.

So again. Happy to see there are people out there crossing their t’s and dotting their i’s.

Shoutout to the gents out there that EVEN IF they know a girl’s restrictions they make sure to ask IRL as well. Respectable!!!! ❤️

Valentina Amante said:

This is refreshing to read!
Too many people enter the hobby thinking they know the acronyms or overlook them.
I usually make sure they know exactly what they are (I have them all decoded on my website) but some don’t read at all.
Sometimes when I take for granted that a client knows … is when I get a surprise finger in my fkn ass while in doggy or CIM.
LIKE JFC. READ / ASK BEFORE. It’s so fkn irritating also.

So again. Happy to see there are people out there crossing their t’s and dotting their i’s.

Shoutout to the gents out there that EVEN IF they know a girl’s restrictions they make sure to ask IRL as well. Respectable!!!! ❤️

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Maybe because I read thoroughly the SP information I don't have any surprises. Or maybe the selection has been done upfront when seeing inclusions and exclusions. Hence the only caveat left is either lying on the resume or just pure scamming.

LeDodo said:

Maybe because I read thoroughly the SP information I don't have any surprises. Or maybe the selection has been done upfront when seeing inclusions and exclusions. Hence the only caveat left is either lying on the resume or just pure scamming.

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I’d love to return the surprise favour sometimes to these people.
Some guys forget we are armed with toys from our box of cox. Hahahahha

Valentina Amante said:

I’d love to return the surprise favour sometimes to these people.
Some guys forget we are armed with toys from our box of cox. Hahahahha

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Toys? Humm now you got my attention. Wrong topic sorry.