That is what many SPs are trying to sell as GFE. I stick with the actual acts, DFK, BBBJ, and DATY. If DFK and BBBJ is missing then it is not GFE.
Is it me or PSE/GFE means nothing these days?
- Thread starter Juugs
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I'm not miffed about things changing. Things always change, and we all have to adapt. The thing you're pointing out though, is something that's just changing for the worse locally, and not everywhere, so it's not exactly the changing of the times here. . I get miffed about people trying to pull the wool over my eyes and treat me like I'm a moron by trying to sell me air and pretend it's perfume. I already go with the ones I like, and don't need your advice to do it. I've also been around enough not to be a sucker for market speak. When I read your response all I could see is:
Now we know that ''safe GFE'' doesn't include bbbj and daty, and that some providers don't know what GFE actually means. So the solution to that is to ask the providers you are booking if they offer dfk, bbbj and daty, and if these are charged as extras. Problem solved! Multiple providers myself included actually offer ''real GFE''. I don't charge extra for the other acronyms because I decided to have an all inclusive rate. Same thing that Raya mentioned earlier in this thread.
Why lol? We’re in agreement. Be smart, ask for what you want, see who you trust. I just don’t see any point (or point of reference) in complaining about “how things used to be.” I imagine in a few years it’ll be me all upset with some “back in my day” tales.
DFK is so hot with an SP and appreciated !
Well, we know what some here would have to say, GFE stands for here in Montreal, it is a list of acronyms.
Let's tell them not to search it's meaning online. Because if it is just a list of acronyms, it seems world wide it has a different meaning than what is being stomped and shouted as it standing for here.It doesn't seem to mean the same thing that is being stated on this board. Search it and see. Hobbiest in Montreal is not the deciding factor on a term that has a universal meaning the world over.
Sigh. You’re completely missing the point. This has absolutely nothing to do with “back in the day” despite the fact that I referred to the origins of the term. Nostalgia doesn’t figure into it at all.
Let’s try a different approach. Forget the past ever existed, there is no past and reality starts from this very moment. I have given you a simple, clear and concise definition of what “GFE” means. If I was going to a store where they sold sexual services in other locations and I asked the clerk to sell me a package of GFE he would just reach behind the counter, pull out a box, and give it to me, because he would know exactly what I meant, because his understanding of the product and my understanding of the product would be exactly the same. When I go to the store next door and ask for the same thing he just reaches under his counter and gives me another box of the same thing. That’s my reality in most places.
OK, now we’re in Montreal. You’re going to the store and you want to buy a package of GFE and you ask the clerk for one. He says “what do you mean? What’s that? I have this and this and this and this. Which one would you like?” You are now faced with having to explain what your understanding of GFE is to him. What definition are you going to use to explain it that’s simple and easy to understand? Think about that for a second. OK, now you’ve thought about it and you've told him and you’ve gotten what you want from the clerk based on his available options to you. You go to the store next door and asked for another box of GFE and he says “What’s that?” and lists 4 other products that aren’t the same as the store next door so the definition you came up with is worthless and you have to start all over again. That’s what the market is like here.
So, when I complain about the use of the term what I’m railing against is the lack of consistency in what it means and the problems it creates when dealing with the expectations of the customer. It could mean anything at all, literally anything, so long as it means the same thing for everybody. In most places it does. Here it doesn’t, and people who expect to receive a certain service don’t, necessarily, because you can't take the term GFE at face value here like you can somewhere else. You told me “just ask them”, and that’s good advice for here, and something I always do up front anyway, but it also shouldn’t be as necessary as it is and you shouldn’t have to worry about everyone giving you a different interpretation of the term. People do this regularly right now in order to be able to use GFE as a piece of their marketing, but the way that it gets used here makes the term virtually meaningless. This isn’t about glorifying the past. You can invent a new term or come up with a meaning for GFE right here, right now, give it to everyone and if they accept it and take it on board and use it so that it meant the same thing for everybody then I’d be happy as a clam, no matter what it meant or what was included.
So, what definition would you like to use that's simple, clear and easy to understand?
@urquell is right, of course. GFE has traditionally meant BBBJ + DFK. If it doesn't mean that anymore, then it doesn't mean anything; there's no such thing as "safe GFE." As for it being a style, well, what's the style? How many SPs advertise that they're aloof clock watchers who are uninterested in kindness, conversation, or connection?
It seems to me that SPs often present themselves as both more and less professional than in the past. They're more professional because they're sex workers ("escort" is just another euphemism) who deserve to be respected for the services they provide. I agree with this, of course. On the other hand, they appear to be less professional because those services are no longer a defined set of acts that can be identified through acronyms but have become an interpersonal abstraction centered on the SP's capacity to care for the emotional needs of clients. In this sense, sex workers are not sex workers. Thus GFE seems to mean: "I will be caring; I will be passionate; I will make you feel seen." Those are all fine things and may be worth paying for. (That also describes teachers, therapists, many medical professionals, life coaches, financial advisers, etc.) And it does seem that many, many men seek out an emotional experience, which is fine.
But problems arise. For one thing, without an agreed-upon definition, any SP can advertise as offering GFE. For another, as we repeatedly see out here, some clients become resentful that their profound emotional experience was a timed professional experience for the SP. Weirdly, it seems to me that more and more clients are feeling hurt by SPs who, after an intimate session, don't call, don't write.
Some SPs are friendly, fun, and good at making connections; some aren't. It has always been that way. In my experience, the fact that an SP or agency advertises GFE doesn't in any way equate to good "chemistry" or connection. How could it? We're all different. And so, again, if GFE doesn't mean specific, agreed-upon services, it really means nothing at all.
It seems to me that SPs often present themselves as both more and less professional than in the past. They're more professional because they're sex workers ("escort" is just another euphemism) who deserve to be respected for the services they provide. I agree with this, of course. On the other hand, they appear to be less professional because those services are no longer a defined set of acts that can be identified through acronyms but have become an interpersonal abstraction centered on the SP's capacity to care for the emotional needs of clients. In this sense, sex workers are not sex workers. Thus GFE seems to mean: "I will be caring; I will be passionate; I will make you feel seen." Those are all fine things and may be worth paying for. (That also describes teachers, therapists, many medical professionals, life coaches, financial advisers, etc.) And it does seem that many, many men seek out an emotional experience, which is fine.
But problems arise. For one thing, without an agreed-upon definition, any SP can advertise as offering GFE. For another, as we repeatedly see out here, some clients become resentful that their profound emotional experience was a timed professional experience for the SP. Weirdly, it seems to me that more and more clients are feeling hurt by SPs who, after an intimate session, don't call, don't write.
Some SPs are friendly, fun, and good at making connections; some aren't. It has always been that way. In my experience, the fact that an SP or agency advertises GFE doesn't in any way equate to good "chemistry" or connection. How could it? We're all different. And so, again, if GFE doesn't mean specific, agreed-upon services, it really means nothing at all.
I’ve already stated what I think it means. GFE is a style of service, wherein the provider acts like and treats you more like a girlfriend, rather than a set of acronyms. PSE being a rougher, more sexually explicit version of that style. That’s how I’ve always understood it.
You say history doesn’t play but the only reason the shop owner knows what you want it to mean when you say GFE is because you and he have had it previously established as such. There’s no signage and this ain’t in the city bylaws.
I’m not from MTL so my perspective isn’t based on that. GFE, for me, hasn’t ever consistently meant what YOU think it means in this city or elsewhere that I’ve seen a provider. Nor have I read it to the be the things you want it to be online unanimously.
That’s why I’m confused with all the vitriol. You’re saying it’s a known standard, I’m saying I haven’t experienced that, so somewhere sometime it changed. Either way, this is the new normal so we can rail at the times or we can save our breath for the real enemies for whom we all should be united against: restaurants that use shredded cheese on poutine. That’s a change in clear defiance of man and God.
there's always a double meaning to GFE and PSE
there's the technical term which includes the acronyms we are accustomed to.
and then there's the experience or demeanor that the girl provides.
some girls are just so into it like Nike slogan, they just wanna "JUST DO IT" and its practically PSE which acronym-wise is basically GFE but the manner they provide it gives a PSE impression "F*** my face!"
some girls will provide the GFE acronyms but have that sensual genuine side added to it, to which the term GFE+ started appearing.
Over the years PSE has become so technical, its as if, the providers deem PSE strictly restriction based. Example: if you start touching her hair, BOOM, that's PSE extra! ok...
Because I am sure all the brothers have taken PSE options, and it could be the most bland experience, but the acronyms are available. Did you feel like you were in a porn movie? absolutely not.
Obviously some services should be an extra, and should be considered PSE extras, and the girls who provide them don't even consider themselves PS'.
so for me, its just attitude.
there's the technical term which includes the acronyms we are accustomed to.
and then there's the experience or demeanor that the girl provides.
some girls are just so into it like Nike slogan, they just wanna "JUST DO IT" and its practically PSE which acronym-wise is basically GFE but the manner they provide it gives a PSE impression "F*** my face!"
some girls will provide the GFE acronyms but have that sensual genuine side added to it, to which the term GFE+ started appearing.
Over the years PSE has become so technical, its as if, the providers deem PSE strictly restriction based. Example: if you start touching her hair, BOOM, that's PSE extra! ok...
Because I am sure all the brothers have taken PSE options, and it could be the most bland experience, but the acronyms are available. Did you feel like you were in a porn movie? absolutely not.
Obviously some services should be an extra, and should be considered PSE extras, and the girls who provide them don't even consider themselves PS'.
so for me, its just attitude.
Sex workers have always offered more than just pure raw sex, this isn't a new thing.. I've done some research and I've talked to a lot of women who have been in the industry for longer than I have.
I was watching this documentary about a brothel in the UK set in 2015. The women working there are far from being high class escorts, but they all say the same thing. They get all kinds of requests from their clients, and they all come for different reasons. I know a woman who worked for an agency in the 2000's and she describes similar experiences, men talking to her about their lives, yes obviously she had sex with them but some requested cuddling and other types of intimacy, some gave her presents and photos they took on vacation.
I think the fact that men are angry and hurt by the fact that there are boundaries for our services has to do with other societal factors than how we advertise our services, personally. Most of my clients aren't angry or jealous even if we do develop a connection over time. I have chats in between bookings occasionally with some of my clients, we sometimes share music, cute pictures etc. I have given people a bit of extra time when I could before as well. They understand the nature of our relationship and the boundaries. However, when I look at this forum, I am shocked by the bitterness and hurt feelings of some people.. and while I do feel for them I feel like it's up to them to work through these feelings.
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I think its because historically, on this board at least, it was a standard on what GFE meant for a little while. I agree now you see a lot of different variation, safe gfe, gfe+, pse etc. Its getting harder to find yourself in all of this.
One service i see less and less often (to a point its almost gone) is providers saying they offer "full service" or "service complet" in french. It used to mean you could... well... have sex with her. Basic as that. There was no kissing and bj was always covered. When GFE became the norm, thats what guys wanted and honestly i would see no incentive for an escort today to advertise "full service" ... Thats basically like announcing from the get go what you DON'T DO.
Instead we started to see safe gfe, or "safe services only". Honestly im an old timer and i am not even sure if providers who does "safe gfe" or everything safe kiss... cause technically kissing is uncovered... unless you put a saranwrap between both lips... lol.
Quite honestly i kinda don't even want to bother with this. I pretty much drawn the line at "GFE" personally. I love my cim/cof finishes (bonus points for swallow) but i will book providers who don't do it if they are super hot and i really want to meet them. BUT if BJ is with a rubber... no thanks. That said BJ is what i prefer, over penetration, so maybe for a guy who only do 5 min of BJ and just want to pound her hard for 40mins ... then maybe he would not mind the covered BJ.
PSE is the oddball because what does it even mean today? It used to be linked to anal... but for me the very essence of a porno is the COF at the end. Yet some agencies started to use "pse" for a simple cim... for me its GFE+. PSE should be a COF, but it seem not everyone agree on that. Heck you can even say that for a true PSE filming should be included... like you truly are experiencing being a pornstar that way.
Ultimately i believe the best is when providers are clear and list the acronymes they will do. That way you know what to expect... And its not like its illegal for them as technically its only illegal for clients to buy, not for them to sell (a dumb concept but whatever)
Yeah that's exactly it. I offer some services that should be considered PSE extras, but I don't want to be choked and spat on and having my hair pulled and I am not a fan of dirty talking particularly if it's calling me a bitch or a dirty whore. I don't want surprise anal. (I could call that something else but some people here won't agree) My service is friendly, warm, sensual and gentle but I'm not a porn star.
I think it's interesting that you say GFE became the norm at some point, because that implies it wasn't always the norm.. which is an advantage to clients honestly, and it contradicts what some people say here, about SP offering less and less services at higher and higher rates.
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