True and agreed I also like to confirm the services I seek. Doing that with Indys is okay but with agencies given what happened to XO that is risky. Hence why in the US no SPs every discuss services by text, no explicit talk.
Nice la Presse Article on XO this morning
- Thread starter felixLg
- Start date
Agencies like those in MTL do not exist in the US as the puritanical past and the current polarized religious right have heavily criminalized sex work and pushed it into the fringes to either the domain of the wealthy or to substance addicted streetwalkers . The fact that most indy providers see sex work as a form of progressive female empowerment and thus lean left, doesn't help. The police have ample resources and vice is considered very easy win. There are regular sting operations not only for clients, but also for workers. You've all seen To Catch a Predator right? They would either use new young, female officers as lures for ads or have officers act as clients with some operations going as far as having sex with providers as there would be no dispute the money was for sex.
Also penalties are harsh as any conviction results in you being placed a sexual predator's list (among pedophiles), and most businesses/industries will force you to lose your license. Physicians will lose their license to practice. Lawyers will be disbarred and be unable to practice. Academics will be fired and be unable to work at any educational institution forever. Teachers will automatically be fired. Financial professionals will also lose their license to practice. Etc. Most decent jobs require a background check and you will not pass that with a conviction let alone being on the list which requires you to notify neighbors of you being there in addition to being publicly listed with you face present. As much argument as there is about the laws protecting providers, it's not if but when you will be convicted especially in high profile areas in Vegas or Miami especially for those who wanted to do it around the rich like during F1 or something like that. Being an indy is more safe, and those in some cities that have decriminalized/deprioritized could feel safer, but there is always a risk of LE jumping through the hoops going through multiple layers of screening and deposits to solicit you and then convicting you. It's not uncommon for police to rent out three rooms, with them camped out in 1, have the 1 room be the incall location and the third room be a holding room for all clients who arrive. Then the next day, the incall location will be the outcall room and every provider that shows up is arrested. It's also not uncommon for undercover clients to approach anyone working at the casino floor, wait for some sort of solicitation and bring the provider up to the room where other police are waiting.
Just looking at the schedules of the agencies in MTL show that most SP work maybe 3 days a week and there's a wide margin of hours from those working 8-9 hours to those working 2-3. Moreover, SPs have said that one of the benefits of this work and working at the agency is the flexibility. They notify the agencies the days they want to work and they work around their civi work, their families (children), vacations, hobbies, unpaid dates, and their work as an indy. So likely the XO fines were unique to them. One booker and the SP confirmed that she sets a 14 hr range and runs errands between bookings. Some SPs have said they have travel plans to Mexico, Japan/China, Europe and just go on hiatus. There does not appear to be any punishment here.
If there is any major critique or obvious coercion, it's that agencies do minimal screening of new clients. They ask age, ethnicity and maybe will ask how do you act or expect from the SP, but no real request to get a reference. After even after you have had bookings, the SPs confirm that bookers do not really ask about the clients and there is no persistent client review or ratings like on Uber or Airbnb. I've asked whether SPs would turn down clients that show up at the door, and it seems that the bar is very high for denials even for hygiene. SPs are more likely to send the person back to the showers repeatedly than turn them away. So I've asked whether a homeless man you see in the metro would be turned away, and I've heard from at least one SP shockingly that they would not. However, I've confirmed from SP that both Forever/Euphoria have covert security with clients being met at the room or even outside the condo for nonpayment issues, pushing bbfs or being rough/rude. Merb itself is also coercive as fear of bad reviews could push newer SPs to go beyond their boundaries or not report bad clients.
At the end of the day, SP are women often over 25 with their own agency and fully formed brains. In MTL, there is lack of evidence of forced trafficking (e.g. typical cases of women smuggled from Latin America or Eastern Europe and owing a debt that they have to pay back to the agency). If anything, it seems that 1/3 to 1/2 at agencies are immigrants and may not have PR and that's a Canadian immigration issue not agency issue. What I've pulled out of some SP is that working at agencies even after a $70-$80 house fee of the $270-$280, most SP clear $16k minimum per month working 3-4 days a week. Then, you add any indy work and OF on top of that, I could see $200k/yr+ in cash. And for the owners, just based on fees alone, I seems that they are making $180k-$125k/month in revenue, and I doubt wages, rent, advertising is anything over $50k. Given that even for today's schedules, the average age seems to be mid 20s with the youngest 20, the agencies do not appear to be pushing barely legal SPs. It also does not logically seem to be in their interest to risk a multi million dollar business bringing in LE scrutiny by hiring an underage SP. And the agencies are notorious for posting ages that are younger than SP's true ages so that lends even more credence against underage hiring.
Also penalties are harsh as any conviction results in you being placed a sexual predator's list (among pedophiles), and most businesses/industries will force you to lose your license. Physicians will lose their license to practice. Lawyers will be disbarred and be unable to practice. Academics will be fired and be unable to work at any educational institution forever. Teachers will automatically be fired. Financial professionals will also lose their license to practice. Etc. Most decent jobs require a background check and you will not pass that with a conviction let alone being on the list which requires you to notify neighbors of you being there in addition to being publicly listed with you face present. As much argument as there is about the laws protecting providers, it's not if but when you will be convicted especially in high profile areas in Vegas or Miami especially for those who wanted to do it around the rich like during F1 or something like that. Being an indy is more safe, and those in some cities that have decriminalized/deprioritized could feel safer, but there is always a risk of LE jumping through the hoops going through multiple layers of screening and deposits to solicit you and then convicting you. It's not uncommon for police to rent out three rooms, with them camped out in 1, have the 1 room be the incall location and the third room be a holding room for all clients who arrive. Then the next day, the incall location will be the outcall room and every provider that shows up is arrested. It's also not uncommon for undercover clients to approach anyone working at the casino floor, wait for some sort of solicitation and bring the provider up to the room where other police are waiting.
Just looking at the schedules of the agencies in MTL show that most SP work maybe 3 days a week and there's a wide margin of hours from those working 8-9 hours to those working 2-3. Moreover, SPs have said that one of the benefits of this work and working at the agency is the flexibility. They notify the agencies the days they want to work and they work around their civi work, their families (children), vacations, hobbies, unpaid dates, and their work as an indy. So likely the XO fines were unique to them. One booker and the SP confirmed that she sets a 14 hr range and runs errands between bookings. Some SPs have said they have travel plans to Mexico, Japan/China, Europe and just go on hiatus. There does not appear to be any punishment here.
If there is any major critique or obvious coercion, it's that agencies do minimal screening of new clients. They ask age, ethnicity and maybe will ask how do you act or expect from the SP, but no real request to get a reference. After even after you have had bookings, the SPs confirm that bookers do not really ask about the clients and there is no persistent client review or ratings like on Uber or Airbnb. I've asked whether SPs would turn down clients that show up at the door, and it seems that the bar is very high for denials even for hygiene. SPs are more likely to send the person back to the showers repeatedly than turn them away. So I've asked whether a homeless man you see in the metro would be turned away, and I've heard from at least one SP shockingly that they would not. However, I've confirmed from SP that both Forever/Euphoria have covert security with clients being met at the room or even outside the condo for nonpayment issues, pushing bbfs or being rough/rude. Merb itself is also coercive as fear of bad reviews could push newer SPs to go beyond their boundaries or not report bad clients.
At the end of the day, SP are women often over 25 with their own agency and fully formed brains. In MTL, there is lack of evidence of forced trafficking (e.g. typical cases of women smuggled from Latin America or Eastern Europe and owing a debt that they have to pay back to the agency). If anything, it seems that 1/3 to 1/2 at agencies are immigrants and may not have PR and that's a Canadian immigration issue not agency issue. What I've pulled out of some SP is that working at agencies even after a $70-$80 house fee of the $270-$280, most SP clear $16k minimum per month working 3-4 days a week. Then, you add any indy work and OF on top of that, I could see $200k/yr+ in cash. And for the owners, just based on fees alone, I seems that they are making $180k-$125k/month in revenue, and I doubt wages, rent, advertising is anything over $50k. Given that even for today's schedules, the average age seems to be mid 20s with the youngest 20, the agencies do not appear to be pushing barely legal SPs. It also does not logically seem to be in their interest to risk a multi million dollar business bringing in LE scrutiny by hiring an underage SP. And the agencies are notorious for posting ages that are younger than SP's true ages so that lends even more credence against underage hiring.
Such a long and off topic post! I gave up reading after the first 25 words!
Les États-Unis ont probablement le pire problème de traite des êtres humains au monde, mdr.
Soyons sérieux deux secondes. Les protestants évangéliques font régulièrement des trucs vraiment glauques et s’en tirent sans conséquences, parce que les États-Unis comptent sur eux dans leur machine de guerre.
Même les Anglais n’étaient pas aussi mauvais qu’eux.
Soyons sérieux deux secondes. Les protestants évangéliques font régulièrement des trucs vraiment glauques et s’en tirent sans conséquences, parce que les États-Unis comptent sur eux dans leur machine de guerre.
Même les Anglais n’étaient pas aussi mauvais qu’eux.
It’s a privilege to have a sp come over when she knows you give her good vibes!
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