Nice la Presse Article on XO this morning

[minutemenX]

no need to get upset for such

OK, my point was actually not about taxes. I just wanted to point out that if this business is completely decriminalized, the government has no choice but to apply the same rules to it as to any other business (auditable transactions, GST/QST, enforcing noncash transaction of large amounts etc). This would probably be not in the best interests both for providers and the clientele. So, we should think twice if a complete decriminalization would be what we all want. My impression is that the best option would be if the government leaves it alone in a grey zone without aggressively enforcing any current legislation against it.

 

[Lunaseraphim]

OK, my point was actually not about taxes. I just wanted to point out that if this business is completely decriminalized, the government has no choice but to apply the same rules to it as to any other business (auditable transactions, GST/QST, enforcing noncash transaction of large amounts etc). This would probably be not in the best interests both for providers and the clientele. So, we should think twice if a complete decriminalization would be what we all want. My impression is that the best option would be if the government leaves it alone in a grey zone without aggressively enforcing any current legislation against it.

Decriminalization is a grey zone. Legalization is not.

 

[johnnuckfan]

Decriminalization is a grey zone. Legalization is not.

Decriminalization is the best solution to sex work in this country and really anywhere. Legalization will cause a host of issues

 

[Lunaseraphim]

Ne faisons pas de victimisation @Lunaseraphim , sortons de la logique de coupable et victime, meme si notre susceptibilité nous y entraine bien souvent.

Quand on parle AUSSI LONGTEMPS (tous), du sujet d actualité qui nous amène ici, necessairement il derivera un petit peu. Et lorsqu il derive c est interessant de garder du recul par rapport a l opinion des autres meme si elle (l opinion) parait diamétralement opposée a la nôtre quelques fois et/ou choquante

Le problème c'est que tu as complètement changé de sujet. On parlait d'abus, pas de fiscalité. Si tu veux discuter sérieusement, reste sur le sujet.

 

[Lunaseraphim]

Decriminalization is the best solution to sex work in this country and really anywhere. Legalization will cause a host of issues

I am not really sure why the subject of decriminalization bothers some people here so much. It is relevant to this topic, because it's been shown through multiple studies that violence against sex workers diminished when prostitution became decriminalized. It's also advantageous to clients in many ways..

I don't think I am closed to other people's opinions to the extent that I'm being accused of, but I'm a sex worker while others who are commenting here are not. I am certainly not speaking on the behalf of all sex workers, and not everyone agrees with me. But it feels like in this conversation, a lot of people have tried to regain control because we were given space to express ourselves, and we were belittled and ''put in our place'' with typical language like ''girls'' ''my dear'' etc.

This conversation is exhausting, and it does feel like we are treated as if we were more stupid than we actually are. I just know that there are people who are reading this, who might not be participating in the discussion, who are thinking right now.. That's good enough for me.

This is not a ''client versus provider'' argument. We're on the same team.

 

[terrybogard88]

Le problème c'est que tu as complètement changé de sujet. On parlait d'abus, pas de fiscalité. Si tu veux discuter sérieusement, reste sur le sujet.

mais non mais tu comprends pas que une question sur un sujet dérivé n est pas INTERDITE a poster ma chere. Fais tu la police de la conversation maintenant ? Il y a un moderateur pour ca.

Ton attitude semble surtout indiquer une certaine irritation par rapport a ce dont on a parlé lorsque le sujet a dérivé. Je te suis a travers toutes ces pages de conversation, quand le sujet derive sur quelque chose qui ne t irrite pas alors le changement de sujet en question, le detour, t interpelle peu, t es capable d elaborer dessus. Mais si le changement porte sur quelque chose qui fait pas exactement ton affaire la tu denonce le changement de sujet. Il faut etre cohérent aussi

 

[Lunaseraphim]

What i observe is that opinions differences or let s say points of view can sometimes be shocking but it is what it is. People talk based on their experience, as long as there is general respect around all that , we are fine. Jugement dies not help anyone

mais non mais tu comprends pas que une question sur un sujet derivée n est pas INTERDITE a poster ma chere. Fais tu la police de la conversation maintenant ?

Personne ne t'empêche de dériver, je suis loin d'être la police. Je souligne simplement que ce n'était pas le sujet initial.

 

[RobertNYC]

i’ve used an escort agency once in Alberta, at the beginning of my time seeing companions. I wasn’t a huge fan of the aggressiveness of the agency operator when dealing with the customer service side, and I had some thoughts that the girl i saw wasn’t treated the best, and I felt for her. I have only seen indy’s since and I will never turn back. Like mentioned, there is various price ranges for indy’s. Personally, i feel better about spending time with someone who has full control over their bodily autonomy, their safety and have strong boundaries and whether or not they are 20 or 30, or whatever age, id rather be with women in their late 20s to mid to late 30s anyway so i dont see this is as an issue. I dont want to run the risk of seeing a minor, nor do i want to support a business that abuses, coerces or causes harm to the girls they hire

If I’m understanding correctly, you won’t use a Montreal agency because you had a bad experience with one in Alberta?

From my experience, owners like James at Euphoria and even the folks at Vogue when I used them were incredible, and their girls spoke highly of them.

If a restaurant I visited in Vancouver treated its staff poorly, I wouldn’t not go to a restaurant in Montreal. The two agencies I mentioned are stellar and I doubt anyone would allege the types of abuses you’re concerned about. And I’m not at all suggesting those abuses don’t happen in Quebec, really just putting your mind at ease with those two legendary agencies to counter any gross generalizations.

 

[terrybogard88]

to remain on the main topic, we already elaborated a lot on it and around it

 

[terrybogard88]

I am not really sure why the subject of decriminalization bothers some people here so much. It is relevant to this topic, because it's been shown through multiple studies that violence against sex workers diminished when prostitution became decriminalized. It's also advantageous to clients in many ways..

I don't think I am closed to other people's opinions to the extent that I'm being accused of, but I'm a sex worker while others who are commenting here are not. I am certainly not speaking on the behalf of all sex workers, and not everyone agrees with me. But it feels like in this conversation, a lot of people have tried to regain control because we were given space to express ourselves, and we were belittled and ''put in our place'' with typical language like ''girls'' ''my dear'' etc.

This conversation is exhausting, and it does feel like we are treated as if we were more stupid than we actually are. I just know that there are people who are reading this, who might not be participating in the discussion, who are thinking right now.. That's good enough for me.

This is not a ''client versus provider'' argument. We're on the same team.

If it was really that exhausting then Maybe You d let go of it after all

 

[Lunaseraphim]

If it was really that exhausting then Maybe You d let go of it after all

Yeah, it's exhausting.. because this is a serious topic. That doesn't mean I'm going to ignore it. What's exhausting isn't the subject itself, it's that some key aspects are constantly downplayed, and that a lot of people keep changing the subject instead of addressing the root of the issue.

 

[Verbal Kint]

mais non mais tu comprends pas que une question sur un sujet dérivé n est pas INTERDITE a poster ma chere. Fais tu la police de la conversation maintenant ? Il y a un moderateur pour ca.

Ton attitude semble surtout indiquer une certaine irritation par rapport a ce dont on a parlé lorsque le sujet a dérivé. Je te suis a travers toutes ces pages de conversation, quand le sujet derive sur quelque chose qui ne t irrite pas alors le changement de sujet en question, le detour, t interpelle peu, t es capable d elaborer dessus. Mais si le changement porte sur quelque chose qui fait pas exactement ton affaire la tu denonce le changement de sujet. Il faut etre cohérent aussi

Moi j'vais juste dire.
Les boys, le jour où on voudra une explication.
Qu'on aura une question
Qu'on aimerait qu'une où des dames du Board ici présente nous explique quoi que ce soit.

V'nez pas braillé si elles ne se présentent pas.
Si à chaque fois qu'elles donnent leurs opinion on leurs répond qu'elle a pas raison, pis qu'à comprend pas...
Par ce que 3 d'entre nous viennent de finir leurs mathématique financière à L'uqam pis que... moi là là, je sais que...

Sur ce.
Comment on approche ça, se procès là?
Défense
Magistrat
Mr. le Juge... svp r'mettez votre robe.
Merci.

 

[davydream52]

You guys were smart enough to use burners, Right? Right?

I still think agency (in Canada) still safer than independents. The independents have your actual information as part of verification; one can only trust one don’t get extorted by an independent.

Just as there are agencies that have lines they don’t cross (which XO at some point allegedly decide to cross), same go for independents.

At one point I wasn't using burner when I started. Are they going to come after the clients now if needed seemingly they can easily track who's who.

 

[johnnuckfan]

If I’m understanding correctly, you won’t use a Montreal agency because you had a bad experience with one in Alberta?

From my experience, owners like James at Euphoria and even the folks at Vogue when I used them were incredible, and their girls spoke highly of them.

If a restaurant I visited in Vancouver treated its staff poorly, I wouldn’t not go to a restaurant in Montreal. The two agencies I mentioned are stellar and I doubt anyone would allege the types of abuses you’re concerned about. And I’m not at all suggesting those abuses don’t happen in Quebec, really just putting your mind at ease with those two legendary agencies to counter any gross generalizations.

I don’t generally agree with the whole idea behind agencies to begin with. I don’t have enough reason to believe the women who work there have complete control and agency over their bodily autonomy. This is an ethical choice for me.

 

[Verbal Kint]

At one point I wasn't using burner when I started. Are they going to come after the clients now if needed seemingly they can easily track who's who.

Who really knows?
If they did surveillance, they have pictures as well.
If you're doing something that is illegal, and they really wanna get you.
They will!
I personally don't think they will go after the clients, But i'm not 100% sure.
Unless it's the only way they can squeeze you.

Truth is tourism is tourism. And Tourism brings money.
Same with drugs...
If you scare everyone out of the business, they loose money.
Now, who wants that?

 

[RobertNYC]

At one point I wasn't using burner when I started. Are they going to come after the clients now if needed seemingly they can easily track who's who.

Come after the clients for what? Meeting up with a girl?

 

[davydream52]

Who really knows?
If they did surveillance, they have pictures as well.
If you're doing something that is illegal, and they really wanna get you.
They will!
I personally don't think they will go after the clients, But i'm not 100% sure.
Unless it's the only way they can squeeze you.

Truth is tourism is tourism. And Tourism brings money.
Same with drugs...
If you scare everyone out of the business, they loose money.
Now, who wants that?

Well that sucks though. I understand these agencies keeping numbers for blacklisting but keeping a whitelist is definitely not good. You would think they would just keep what they only need running a business like that.

 

[RobertNYC]

Who really knows?
If they did surveillance, they have pictures as well.
If you're doing something that is illegal, and they really wanna get you.
They will!
I personally don't think they will go after the clients, But i'm not 100% sure.
Unless it's the only way they can squeeze you.

Truth is tourism is tourism. And Tourism brings money.
Same with drugs...
If you scare everyone out of the business, they loose money.
Now, who wants that?

Squeeze you for what? Whether the owners of XO were operating an escort agency?

Well, the owners still have their website up shouting that’s exactly what they do, they’re in the escort services business.

Nobody gives a rats ass about the clients, and it’s quite likely XO is out of the Montreal escort news next week. In the US these types of stories can be reported on monthly.

A bust in Massachusetts is one of the only times I’ve seen clients names released, and one look at the government of Boston and across the state tells you all you need to know.

 

[Lunaseraphim]

I don’t generally agree with the whole idea behind agencies to begin with. I don’t have enough reason to believe the women who work there have complete control and agency over their bodily autonomy. This is an ethical choice for me.

There are very legit reasons why some women choose to work for agencies or massage parlors, for instance they don't have to do a bunch of advertising, the work place is offered to them, etc. I'm not here to insult the choices of ppl who work for these types of places.. It just would be cool if ALL of these business owners treated their employees well, that's all.

 

[Verbal Kint]

Well that sucks though. I understand these agencies keeping numbers for blacklisting but keeping a whitelist is definitely not good. You would think they would just keep what they only need running a business like that.

The pizza place I used to order from, had my adress, and what I ordered last time I called, as soon as I gave them my phone number.
I hate myself for saying this: Data is Knowledge and Knowledge is power.
I was not refering to the agencies, practices but to law enforcement.
I don't know what agencies keep or don't.
What they should and shouldn't
It's a double edge sword.
The more you keep, the more you know.
But when poops hits the fan, the more the guy doing the perquisition gets to know as well...