Hamas & Israel

[CaptRenault]

‎נועה כוכבא‎ on Instagram: "Don’t stay silent. Stand with humanity. Stand with Israel. #israel #istandwithisrael #hamasisisis Disclaimers: I condemn any actions of violence or hate. This is for educational purposes. This page does not intend to pr

36K likes, 4,903 comments - noacochva on October 29, 2023: "Don’t stay silent. Stand with humanity. Stand with Israel. #israel #istandwithisrael #hamasisisis Disclaimers: I condemn any..."

www.instagram.com

 

[CaptRenault]

Why did Israel go to war against Hamas?

 

[CaptRenault]

Preston Stewart is a West Point grad and a U.S. Army reservist. He has been producing some good videos providing his professional analysis of the progress of Israel's war against Hamas. Here is his report from today, Thursday, November 2:

 

[nothinghere]

Here is his report from today, Thursday, November 2:

^^^From that youtube video at 3:30 mark the drone footage dropping grenades onto Israeli troops. He cuts video not to get the video removed but all last few years was drone footage of "Ukrainian" drones dropping grenades onto Russian troops everywhere on youtube and everywhere in the news... literally people cheering it on. So many ways to interpret that. What the F going on?

So Friday Nov 3 Iran will speak.

Also on the schedule for Nov 11:

Calls for UK Army to be deployed for 'million-strong' Palestine march...

 

[Obvio-0bvio]

What I truly dislike about this war is that it has caused division and polarization among people.

It is important to understand that Israel did not initiate this violent conflict. It all began when Palestinian terrorists infiltrated Israel illegally with the intention of brutally killing, raping,attacking and kidnapping innocent civilians.

Their actions showed a complete lack of morality and regard for human life. It is unreasonable to expect Israel to simply stand by and do nothing in response.

It is crucial to remember that this war was initiated by Palestine, and now Israel must put an end to Hamas once and for all. Israel's objective is not only to protect itself but also to establish a stable and normal government for the hard working Palestinians citizens, like any other country.

It is clear that the current Palestinian government is composed of terrorists. While I empathize with the innocent citizens of Palestine, it is inevitable that Hamas needs to be eliminated. They are a brutal organization that disregards the well-being of their own people, using them as shields while targeting Jews.

As for the pro-Palestine demonstrations, it is important to note that a significant portion of the participants have limited knowledge of the history of Palestine and Israel , and others simply harbor hatred towards Jews, giving them a pretext to protest against Israel.

It is ironic that Arabs, whose families fled from Arab/Muslim countries to seek better lives for their kids in wealthier Western nations, now these kids cling desperately to their Arab identity and feel justified in expressing animosity towards Jews.

It pains me to witness innocent Palestinian civilians getting harmed or killed during this war, but it is crucial to acknowledge that Israel did not initiate this conflict – it was the Palestinian government who set it in motion.

 

[Rebaynia]

Isn't there no Palestinian politicians? Isn't the fact that they aren't allowed to even govern themselves part of the reason they attacked to begin with...

The reasons people are standing up for them is because they are trying to free themselves from their suppressors?

The whole conflict and what side people stand on are often based on the 2 same sides... Those who feel suppressed tend to side with Palestinians, while those who are all for suppressing others side with Israel.

This war didn't start with the 1 specific attack, it has been something that has been happening if we take the bible into account... since the damn begining of time.

The issue is believing that just because a culture is being suppressed it should remain that way. Every person is entitled to live without another culture or race forcing them to stay down.

Both sides have their unforgivables. Neither is in the right. But peace seems to be impossible between the 2 cultures.

 

[EagerBeaver]

Isn't there no Palestinian politicians?

I think the Palestinians have been allowed to govern themselves, but the groups who have gained political power have been ineffective to resolve the conflict. Everyone in this thread seems to forget Egypt and Israel resolved their conflict almost 50 years ago and each nation has lived in peace since that time. Basically Israel gave Egypt land, oil and money when the Sinai was returned. Keep in mind this would be like the United States returning the State of Texas to Mexico. Texas was seized from Mexico militarily just like Sinai was seized from Egypt militarily, which was done for many military strategic reasons including control of the Suez Canal. Which was vital to Israel surviving after being attacked by ALL neighboring Arab nations in 1967.

Admittedly, the Palestinian problem is far more complicated, and has far more history going back to biblical times and the Kingdom of Israel, which did in fact exist. But the same kind of solution brokered between Israel and Egypt in 1978 is, at least theoretically, possible as between Israel and the Palestinians. Meaning a 2 state solution, shifting of some wealth to the new Palestine, and implementing some government that is not fundamentalist Islam at its roots but rather Democratic or a Republic.

Right now, there is Hamas and there is the Palestinian Authority. Hamas is akin to ISIS, a receptacle of fundamental Islamic extremists who commit crimes in the name of religion at the behest of clerical leaders. This is a problem throughout the Middle East and is a function of cultural issues which stem from religion being used to subjugate a population. The PA on the other hand are just glorified fundraisers who have used their money to enrich themselves rather than better the lives of their constituents, as was exposed earlier in this thread by MinutemenX. They live in opulent wealth like the Saudis do, and are more materialistic than their Hamas brethren and as such less likely to behave like criminals, because that means death or jail, one and can't enjoy one's wealth when dead or in jail.

I think the words "suppressed"' and "oppressed" are being overused here. 21% of the population of Israel is Arab and they serve in the Knesset and in the military. These are all Palestinians. Are they oppressed? They could live in Israel, Gaza, West Bank or wherever they want. They have stayed in Israel.

The extent to which Gazans are suppressed has to do with their political leadership and the security threat they pose to Israel. Their political leadership hasn't found a path towards a more constructive resolution and has instead used violence and war as a method of resolving conflict, so Israel has responded accordingly. That's why we are where we are.

 

[CaptRenault]

Here's today's informative report from U.S. Army vet Preston Stewart on the military situation in Gaza. Also, here's a map that shows Israel's basic strategy to encircle the northern half of Gaza and cut it off from resupply and reinforcement from Hamas forces in the southern half. It's an obvious and good strategy but that doesn't mean that the fighting is easy for Israeli forces.

 

[CaptRenault]

Saturday's military update from Preston Stewart:

 

[minutemenX]

Thank you friends in Canada and Montreal!

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/R1HgWKOMKJs

 

[poupsy]

What I truly dislike about this war is that it has caused division and polarization among people.

It is important to understand that Israel did not initiate this violent conflict. It all began when Palestinian terrorists infiltrated Israel illegally with the intention of brutally killing, raping,attacking and kidnapping innocent civilians.

Their actions showed a complete lack of morality and regard for human life. It is unreasonable to expect Israel to simply stand by and do nothing in response.

It is crucial to remember that this war was initiated by Palestine, and now Israel must put an end to Hamas once and for all. Israel's objective is not only to protect itself but also to establish a stable and normal government for the hard working Palestinians citizens, like any other country.

It is clear that the current Palestinian government is composed of terrorists. While I empathize with the innocent citizens of Palestine, it is inevitable that Hamas needs to be eliminated. They are a brutal organization that disregards the well-being of their own people, using them as shields while targeting Jews.

As for the pro-Palestine demonstrations, it is important to note that a significant portion of the participants have limited knowledge of the history of Palestine and Israel , and others simply harbor hatred towards Jews, giving them a pretext to protest against Israel.

It is ironic that Arabs, whose families fled from Arab/Muslim countries to seek better lives for their kids in wealthier Western nations, now these kids cling desperately to their Arab identity and feel justified in expressing animosity towards Jews.

It pains me to witness innocent Palestinian civilians getting harmed or killed during this war, but it is crucial to acknowledge that Israel did not initiate this conflict – it was the Palestinian government who set it in motion.

Well expressed

 

[EagerBeaver]

Jon Voight Slams Daughter Angelina Jolie over Israel-Hamas views:

Jon Voight slams daughter Angelina Jolie for her criticism of Israel: 'I'm so disappointed'

The "Midnight Cowboy" actor said he was "disappointed that my daughter, like so many, has no understanding of God's honor, God's truths."

www.yahoo.com

Just tell her what you really think Jonny Boy!

 

[EagerBeaver]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1720645494475526225

Not sure if any of you saw him in Midnight Cowboy in which he played a Gigolo/Male Escort for older rich women/Sugar Mamas, but he was awesome in that movie! Any of you guys remember this scene when he asks for his money from the Cougar he fucked?

 

[poupsy]

You need to think about that statement more carefully. I refuse to be responsible for the mass killings of civilians that the Israelis carries under the excuse of claiming that Hamas is terrorist. I do not think a baby or a kid harbors anything. How many kids or babies or innocent civilian needs to die so that Israel is satisfied? My country is supporting Israel. Those acts (killing civilians for political motives) can only be described as terrorist acts.
Calling Hamas a terrorist organization in unfunded and just propaganda. Why are Hamas action terrorism, while Israeli action Self defense? Who is denying who here? Do the Palestinians have Israelis in their Jails or the Opposite? Are the Israelis under siege or the opposite? What rights are the Palestinians denying the Israelis? Not recognizing Israel by the Palestinian is simply a reaction of the Israelis not recognizing the Palestinians.

I think you’re confusing true intention of killing torturing kidnapping civilians vs collateral damage on civilians despite IDF warnings and doing all they can to avoid civilians casualties as hamas uses them as human shields frim schools and hospitals wich by the way under international laws of war makes them legitimate targets
In any case I don’t see how this is going to end since Hamas openly and clearly vows to erase israel from the maps and kill all the jews.
I really don’t understand how people support an islamic ideology in 2023. Who wants to leave under islam laws
Make no mistake islamic ideology is to impose charia everywhere

 

[Francoquart]

I think you’re confusing true intention of killing torturing kidnapping civilians vs collateral damage on civilians despite IDF warnings and doing all they can to avoid civilians casualties as hamas uses them as human shields frim schools and hospitals wich by the way under international laws of war makes them legitimate targets
In any case I don’t see how this is going to end since Hamas openly and clearly vows to erase israel from the maps and kill all the jews.
I really don’t understand how people support an islamic ideology in 2023. Who wants to leave under islam laws
Make no mistake islamic ideology is to impose charia everywhere

Not I am not. They are stating it plainly anyway, they are no longer shy about it. We can hear them saying that they need to kill as many Palestinians as possible to make them leave Ghaza and go To Sinai. Ten thousand dead by now, come one, this is collateral?! The minister is suggesting to bomb them with nuclear bombs, which they have been denying to have for years now.
The real question is not how can anyone support Hamas in 2023, but it is how can people not understand that occupation of any kind will lead to resistance, and in most cases radical ones.
When Hamas kills one person in protest of the occupation, the embargo, prisoners, and in their general situation, we in the west automatically cry and call them terrorists. They kill thousands, and of course it is collateral. I am not sure how many still buy these distortions of reality, but it is becoming clearer everyday that their numbers are shrinking.
Hamas call for arms is not about religion, even though it is their beliefs, but about resistance. The best way to weaken Hamas, is to give them no cause by ending the occupation. It is important to remember that this conflict is much older then Hamas. It is also important to remember that any one standing against Israel is called names.

 

[Obvio-0bvio]

I think you’re confusing true intention of killing torturing kidnapping civilians vs collateral damage on civilians despite IDF warnings and doing all they can to avoid civilians casualties as hamas uses them as human shields frim schools and hospitals wich by the way under international laws of war makes them legitimate targets
In any case I don’t see how this is going to end since Hamas openly and clearly vows to erase israel from the maps and kill all the jews.
I really don’t understand how people support an islamic ideology in 2023. Who wants to leave under islam laws
Make no mistake islamic ideology is to impose charia everywhere

My friend, very well expressed and accurately. Israel appears to be on trial since October 7th, which involved brutal acts such as beheadings, rape, killings, and kidnappings perpetrated by the terrorist group Hamas.

It is evident that Hamas cares little about the wellbeing of their citizens in Palestine, as they use them as human shields and have misappropriated billions of dollars in humanitarian aid that should have benefited their own people. Their sole mission seems to be the elimination of Israel and Jews worldwide.

Despite these atrocities, Israel consistently finds itself on the defensive, constantly having to explain its actions to the world. Incidents against Jews or Israel are not given the same level of attention or condemnation. Even after the horrific slaughter of 1,400 citizens on October 7th, which lasted for 8 and a half hours, Israel still finds itself on trial, as if it is acceptable for Jews to be slaughtered. It is as if they are being held responsible and must justify their every move.

Just like the Nazis had to be eradicated, it is now Hamas who must be eliminated. It is impossible to coexist with a terrorist group whose sole purpose is to annihilate and destroy Jews.

Furthermore, there are people in the world who cheer for these terrorists, while the media handles the situation with tip and toeing.

The Jews are treated differently than any other group. There is a belief that when Jews are hurt or killed, it is somehow different from when others get hurt, as if the Jews had it coming, here I said it.

 

[poupsy]

Not I am not. They are stating it plainly anyway, they are no longer shy about it. We can hear them saying that they need to kill as many Palestinians as possible to make them leave Ghaza and go To Sinai. Ten thousand dead by now, come one, this is collateral?! The minister is suggesting to bomb them with nuclear bombs, which they have been denying to have for years now.
The real question is not how can anyone support Hamas in 2023, but it is how can people not understand that occupation of any kind will lead to resistance, and in most cases radical ones.
When Hamas kills one person in protest of the occupation, the embargo, prisoners, and in their general situation, we in the west automatically cry and call them terrorists. They kill thousands, and of course it is collateral. I am not sure how many still buy these distortions of reality, but it is becoming clearer everyday that their numbers are shrinking.
Hamas call for arms is not about religion, even though it is their beliefs, but about resistance. The best way to weaken Hamas, is to give them no cause by ending the occupation. It is important to remember that this conflict is much older then Hamas. It is also important to remember that any one standing against Israel is called names.

I don’t know where you get your news but Israel is very clear that they are not at war with Palestinian people but with Hamas. They need to get rid of hamas no other option is on the table for any normal person. Hamas and Iran still goes on to say they want to anhilate israel and Jews everywhere ( scary isn’t it??)
They are not interested in a 2 state solution

As for the one deputy who made this irrelevant comment you refering to he was clearly reprimanded by the PM and that was not a smart comment at all.

Also I wonder what occupation you’re talking about??
Israel gave Palestinians the key to Gaza in 2005 and Hamas destroyed it , oppresses they own people and putting all the humanitarian money into their pocket and building 500km of terror tunnels under civilly infrastructure. Rockets that fall on their own people when missfired. Remember the hospital they try to blame on Israel. Facts are there simply pro hamas don’t want to see them.

1200 gazan used to cross the border to work in israel every day while leaders are multimillionaires and live in Quatar in luxurious homes too coward to stay with their own people

Gaza could have been the riviera of the middle east and if you want to talk about the blocus imposed by Israel please be fair and also state that Egyptian are also imposing a tight blocus on them for security purposes.

I’m sure that they are civilians killed in the crossfire it is horrible but it is war unfortunately…but seriously who beleive Hamas numbers?? And how many of them are terrorist?
I just can’t understand how someone can have any sympathy for hamas

Sorry for the rant. For the record I’m not jewish but I hate hypocrisy and a manipulative narrative .

I would conclude: “Free Palestine From Hamas” that I would agree 100%

 

[minutemenX]

Not I am not. They are stating it plainly anyway, they are no longer shy about it. We can hear them saying that they need to kill as many Palestinians as possible to make them leave Gaza and go To Sinai. Ten thousand dead by now, come one, this is collateral?! The minister is suggesting to bomb them with nuclear bombs, which they have been denying to have for years now.
The real question is not how can anyone support Hamas in 2023, but it is how can people not understand that occupation of any kind will lead to resistance, and in most cases radical ones.
When Hamas kills one person in protest of the occupation, the embargo, prisoners, and in their general situation, we in the west automatically cry and call them terrorists. They kill thousands, and of course it is collateral. I am not sure how many still buy

Sorry for some repeating as was distracted and did not read last posts

#1 You consider Hamas action was a response against “occupation”? Mind you the “occupier” has no force on the “occupied” land and only closed the border from its side. Providing by the way more than 70% of electricity and 90% of fresh water which is a scarcity in the region and comes from the Israeli desalination plants. Israel does not control Egyptian border and it was between Gazans and Egypt to negotiate its opening and have free movement of people and goods. Why it should not be easy between Arabs that speak the same language? With billions of dollars given to Gaza over the past 15 years they could build an express highway and railroad all the way to Cairo instead of the 300 miles of underground tunnels. So much for the “open prison” .
#2
All this “proportionality response” in war is so much BS and hypocrisy that it is mind boggling.

-German air raids against England killed 75,000 civilians, yet Allied bombing of Germany killed 2M German civilians. Is it unjust?
- Very few American civilians were killed by the Japanese and almost none on American soil, and yet firebombing of Tokyo alone killed 100,000 not to mention other cities and nuclear bombing. Is it unjust?
- Inversely, Germany during Holocaust killed 6M Jews. So, 6M German civilians had to be murdered in gas chambers to have proportional response?

War is not about retribution or ”proportional” responses. War is calculated use of deadly force to reach political objectives dictated by the country security and survival. Sparing civilian population from which the enemy combatants are recruited comes close second at best. Israel, unlike Hamas, however does not kill civilians on purpose. This is hypocrisy in its clearest form: demanding Israel to stop yet accepting Hamas rights to keep hostages and fighting amid own civilian population using it as a human shield, which, by the way, is arranged by design.

 

[Francoquart]

I don’t know where you get your news but Israel is very clear that they are not at war with Palestinian people but with Hamas. They need to get rid of hamas no other option is on the table for any normal person. Hamas and Iran still goes on to say they want to anhilate israel and Jews everywhere ( scary isn’t it??)
They are not interested in a 2 state solution

As for the one deputy who made this irrelevant comment you refering to he was clearly reprimanded by the PM and that was not a smart comment at all.

Also I wonder what occupation you’re talking about??
Israel gave Palestinians the key to Gaza in 2005 and Hamas destroyed it , oppresses they own people and putting all the humanitarian money into their pocket and building 500km of terror tunnels under civilly infrastructure. Rockets that fall on their own people when missfired. Remember the hospital they try to blame on Israel. Facts are there simply pro hamas don’t want to see them.

1200 gazan used to cross the border to work in israel every day while leaders are multimillionaires and live in Quatar in luxurious homes too coward to stay with their own people

Gaza could have been the riviera of the middle east and if you want to talk about the blocus imposed by Israel please be fair and also state that Egyptian are also imposing a tight blocus on them for security purposes.

I’m sure that they are civilians killed in the crossfire it is horrible but it is war unfortunately…but seriously who beleive Hamas numbers?? And how many of them are terrorist?
I just can’t understand how someone can have any sympathy for hamas

Sorry for the rant. For the record I’m not jewish but I hate hypocrisy and a manipulative narrative .

I would conclude: “Free Palestine From Hamas” that I would agree 100%

This insistence on differentiating between Hamas and Palestinian I cannot understand. Hamas are Palestinians. On top of that they are Sunnis not Shia like Iran.
There are misconceptions in what you have said. Palestine is occupied. Gaza freed itself from the IDF direct presence, but the embargo was never ever lifted. Egypt are not imposing any blockade. but according to the peace treaty signed with Egypt in the 70's, what happens on that border is mostly decided by Israel. Egypt wants to send food and medication, the Israelis are refusing , and they even bombed the attempts.
You need to redefine terrorist, if it is killing civilians then Israel by far exceeds anything's Hamas has done in that area. If it is following a religion, then the this Israelis cabinet is one of the most religious extremist that ever ruled Israel. Hamas is supported by its people, which makes it legitimate. How many demonstrations did you see around the world in support of ISIS, or any other terrorist organization in the world. The answer is one big fat Zero. For Palestine, Gaza, Westbank. however, there have been so many.
The cause is real, Hamas, is just one of the many other organization that have decided that the best way to deal with occupation is resistance, because the Oslo agreement just brought misery to them. I also think that Hamas are extremist, but they gain strength with Israel brutality. In a sense, Israel is feeding Hamas's popularity.
We all hate hypocrisy, but the manipulative narrative is denying occupation, and accepting such incredible crimes in the name of self defense, while occupying, and/or sieging the people. The aggressor is never in self defense.
The 2 state solution was massacred by Israelis colons. They kept expanding settlements, and effectively divided anything that could be considered a second state.
As for the casualty, just follow the UN, UNICEF, and other international organization, no need to believe Hamas sources. The numbers are scary, and they are not done yet.

 

[Francoquart]

Sorry for some repeating as was distracted and did not read last posts

#1 You consider Hamas action was a response against “occupation”? Mind you the “occupier” has no force on the “occupied” land and only closed the border from its side. Providing by the way more than 70% of electricity and 90% of fresh water which is a scarcity in the region and comes from the Israeli desalination plants. Israel does not control Egyptian border and it was between Gazans and Egypt to negotiate its opening and have free movement of people and goods. Why it should not be easy between Arabs that speak the same language? With billions of dollars given to Gaza over the past 15 years they could build an express highway and railroad all the way to Cairo instead of the 300 miles of underground tunnels. So much for the “open prison” .
#2
All this “proportionality response” in war is so much BS and hypocrisy that it is mind boggling.

-German air raids against England killed 75,000 civilians, yet Allied bombing of Germany killed 2M German civilians. Is it unjust?
- Very few American civilians were killed by the Japanese and almost none on American soil, and yet firebombing of Tokyo alone killed 100,000 not to mention other cities and nuclear bombing. Is it unjust?
- Inversely, Germany during Holocaust killed 6M Jews. So, 6M German civilians had to be murdered in gas chambers to have proportional response?

War is not about retribution or ”proportional” responses. War is calculated use of deadly force to reach political objectives dictated by the country security and survival. Sparing civilian population from which the enemy combatants are recruited comes close second at best. Israel, unlike Hamas, however does not kill civilians on purpose. This is hypocrisy in its clearest form: demanding Israel to stop yet accepting Hamas rights to keep hostages and fighting amid own civilian population using it as a human shield, which, by the way, is arranged by design.

I do not think comparing the Israeli Palestinian conflict to WW2 is correct. The scope and the conditions are different. This is not 2 armies fighting. It is one army (one of the strongest in the world), against a people it is occupying/controlling (depending on how you want to see it). It is not a war of ideologies. Why have you decided that the Israeli's killing of civilians is unintentional while Hamas's is? When an ambulance is transporting injured people, the IDF mistakes it for what? A Tank or a mechanized Infantry vehicle? A hospital is mistaken for a Bunker? How many mistakes do they need to do for you to be convinced something is wrong here? Do not get me wrong, I do not believe Hamas are angels.. I hate any religious group, but I do not let it blind me from the truth.
People are dying like flies. Casualties and destructions are horrible. It is only human to ask for this violence to stop. You cannot just point the fingers at Hamas, neglecting their context and their reasons.