Fines for insulting the police in Montreal

[urquell]

So, in September Montreal passed a law making it illegal to insult or harass the police. The mayor's office was pointedly saying that no one is going to get a ticket for flipping off a police officer or calling them a name with no other circumstances involved but at the same time the law doesn't really define what is sufficient provocation is and it's so vague that seems to leave it up to the discretion of the police officer to decide when they feel they have been sufficiently insulted and/or harassed. The fines can be quite hefty and it feels like there's a lot of latitude for abuse here. There's also some freedom of expression issues. Not sure how much court time will be taken up by people arguing rights and what constitutes a crime here. I'm not wild about the idea of giving the municipal cops the latitude to be even more arrogant or petty (or both) than they already are. What do you guys think?

 

[Happy_Guy]

All this started with this guy, Bekkali, insulting police, filming it and posting it on Internet.
Telling a woman she is your slave has nothing to do with freedom of speech.

 

[neverbored]

I think its fair that police officers should be allowed to conduct their "legal stops" without having to be insulted and berrated for doing their job. I would really hate to see it being at the discretion of the police officer. However if there is sufficient recorded proof of (like in the case of that idiot Bekkali) ... I would have no issue. Where it gets touchy is if they use it against someone that is intoxicated or has mental issues (ie : homeless). It should go both ways.

Body cams would be useful.

 

[Fradi]

So, in September Montreal passed a law making it illegal to insult or harass the police. The mayor's office was pointedly saying that no one is going to get a ticket for flipping off a police officer or calling them a name with no other circumstances involved but at the same time the law doesn't really define what is sufficient provocation is and it's so vague that seems to leave it up to the discretion of the police officer to decide when they feel they have been sufficiently insulted and/or harassed. The fines can be quite hefty and it feels like there's a lot of latitude for abuse here. There's also some freedom of expression issues. Not sure how much court time will be taken up by people arguing rights and what constitutes a crime here. I'm not wild about the idea of giving the municipal cops the latitude to be even more arrogant or petty (or both) than they already are. What do you guys think?

Many cops have a chip on their shoulder and are arrogant assholes. Giving them this kind of power is asinine and will only put them more on a power trip.
I have never had a pleasant conversation with a cop, they are always trying to interrogate you, they are usually rude and most of them are uneducated morons.

They should instead have a law that forbids them to harass citizens.

 

[urquell]

I think its fair that police officers should be allowed to conduct their "legal stops" without having to be insulted and berrated for doing their job. I would really hate to see it being at the discretion of the police officer. However if there is sufficient recorded proof of (like in the case of that idiot Bekkali) ... I would have no issue. Where it gets touchy is if they use it against someone that is intoxicated or has mental issues (ie : homeless). It should go both ways.

Body cams would be useful.

You're right, but only if there is an actual definition of what constitutes this kind of infraction. To leave the interpretation of the law in the hands of the police officers whims is crazy.

 

[neverbored]

Many cops have a chip on their shoulder and are arrogant assholes. Giving them this kind of power is asinine and will only put them more on a power trip.

Just like in any job. An asshole is an asshole regardless of their profession. What pisses me off is when "good" cops defend the actions of "bad" cops in the name of fraternity and loyalty. Put simply... the moment a "good" cop protects a "bad" cop... it becomes 2 "bad" cops. And with the power they are given... this shouldn't be accepted and should be condemned hard.

I have never had a pleasant conversation with a cop, they are always trying to interrogate you, they are usually rude and most of them are uneducated morons.

Well, kinda like seeing a dentist right? Having to deal with them is never under happy circumstances. But I've gotten out of 90% of tickets by not being unpleasant and by not denying why he stops me (without admitting to it either). I try to get a laugh out of them instead of putting them down (and I don't have much love for traffic cops either so I'm hard faking it). If he wants to act tough... that's on them. I'm not stupid enough to get baited like that.

Like my dad always said : I might not be able to be part of the solution, but I sure as hell can decide not to be part of the problem.

 

[Fradi]

Just like in any job. An asshole is an asshole regardless of their profession. What pisses me off is when "good" cops defend the actions of "bad" cops in the name of fraternity and loyalty. Put simply... the moment a "good" cop protects a "bad" cop... it becomes 2 "bad" cops. And with the power they are given... this shouldn't be accepted and should be condemned hard.



Well, kinda like seeing a dentist right? Having to deal with them is never under happy circumstances. But I've gotten out of 90% of tickets by not being unpleasant and by not denying why he stops me (without admitting to it either). I try to get a laugh out of them instead of putting them down (and I don't have much love for traffic cops either so I'm hard faking it). If he wants to act tough... that's on them. I'm not stupid enough to get baited like that.

Like my dad always said : I might not be able to be part of the solution, but I sure as hell can decide not to be part of the problem.

I agree with most of what you are saying but like to point out that there are way more arrogant assholes amongst cops than the rest of the population.
I have never gotten out of a ticket ever and it is not because I am not polite. Luckily I can still count on my two hands the number of tickets I have gotten in a life time.

Just as an example I used to take care of an elderly lady’s place each year while she was on vacation in Europe for about 10 years and was the first contact when her alarm system would go off.
As luck would have it this would happen once or twice every year almost, (false alarm each time) I would drive over I lived 2 streets away and wait for the police to arrive and each time they interrogated me as if I was trying to break into her place even though I clearly had a key and knew the code to her alarm system to turn it off.
Not once was it a pleasant conversation with these assholes.

 

[Smitty Jaeger-Manjenson]

Maybe it's a bad idea to call a cop a cocksucker? Just a brainfart. Try that shit in the States and you get a nice massage via baton.

Considering I originally hail from a section of the old continent where the police is typically composed of society's dregs (corrupt, petty and incompetent), it gives me a better appreciation for the boys and girls in blue here in the Quebecistan Semi-autonomous Region. Just a heads-up that if you are asked to identify yourself, by law you are allowed to ask whether you are suspected of any crime. If the cop answers "no", then you are under no legal obligation to produce ID.

 

[Happy_Guy]

Maybe it's a bad idea to call a cop a cocksucker? Just a brainfart. Try that shit in the States and you get a nice massage via baton.

Considering I originally hail from a section of the old continent where the police is typically composed of society's dregs (corrupt, petty and incompetent), it gives me a better appreciation for the boys and girls in blue here in the Quebecistan Semi-autonomous Region. Just a heads-up that if you are asked to identify yourself, by law you are allowed to ask whether you are suspected of any crime. If the cop answers "no", then you are under no legal obligation to produce ID.

Ce n'est pas tout à fait exact:

In addition to what you said, if you are intercepted while driving a car, you should produce your driver licence, the car registartion and a proof of insurance. this do not apply to other people in the car.

Contexte de l'interaction	Obligation de s'identifier ?	Détails et documents requis
Simple interpellation dans la rue (sans infraction reprochée)	Non	Vous pouvez refuser de donner votre nom ou vos papiers et poursuivre votre route.
Conducteur d'un véhicule (intercepté sur la route)	Oui	Vous devez obligatoirement fournir physiquement votre permis de conduire, l'immatriculation et l'attestation d'assurance. (Les passagers n'ont pas à s'identifier).
Soupçon d'infraction (pénale, municipale ou provinciale)	Oui	Si le policier vous informe de l'infraction qu'il vous reproche (ex. : flânage, règlement municipal, constat d'infraction), vous devez donner verbalement votre nom, adresse et date de naissance. (Une pièce d'identité physique n'est pas obligatoire).

 

[Smitty Jaeger-Manjenson]

Ce n'est pas tout à fait exact:

In addition to what you said, if you are intercepted while driving a car, you should produce your driver licence, the car registartion and a proof of insurance. this do not apply to other people in the car.

Contexte de l'interaction	Obligation de s'identifier ?	Détails et documents requis
Simple interpellation dans la rue (sans infraction reprochée)	Non	Vous pouvez refuser de donner votre nom ou vos papiers et poursuivre votre route.
Conducteur d'un véhicule (intercepté sur la route)	Oui	Vous devez obligatoirement fournir physiquement votre permis de conduire, l'immatriculation et l'attestation d'assurance. (Les passagers n'ont pas à s'identifier).
Soupçon d'infraction (pénale, municipale ou provinciale)	Oui	Si le policier vous informe de l'infraction qu'il vous reproche (ex. : flânage, règlement municipal, constat d'infraction), vous devez donner verbalement votre nom, adresse et date de naissance. (Une pièce d'identité physique n'est pas obligatoire).

Yes, exactly. Traffic stops are a different animal, I was specifically thinking of walking down the street. Happened to me once and I decided to cooperate because I didn't know the Canadian law yet.

 

[Julia Sky]

Ce n'est pas tout à fait exact:

In addition to what you said, if you are intercepted while driving a car, you should produce your driver licence, the car registartion and a proof of insurance. this do not apply to other people in the car.

Sauf qu'il y a eu une décision de la cours interdissant le fait de stopper un véhicule sans raison. Il doit absolument y avoir une infraction. Donc on revient au point d'origine, dans le sens où un policier qui t'arrête en voiture est sensé avoir vu une infraction, donc la question ne se pose plus vraiment : oui, tu dois fournir tes informations.