Nice la Presse Article on XO this morning

[boboi]

It takes a specific type of person to run an "agency", they are all about smoke and mirrors, and collecting as much information possible about the girls and clients, some are very good at presenting the different girls they run as Indy, but they keep a phone list, but with calling apps they start pushing for you "to present yourself" so they can identify you even if you change the phone number.
They even call new Indy girls in their territory to harass them, and push them to up the rates to be less competitive, in the suburbs at least.
They push the girls to collect info about you, most of the time it's paranoia that you might be LE, they also love to know your MERB handle to harass you if you leave a negative review.
I developed a system to screen for real Indy girls. But I still fell for pretend Indy few times.

 

[Lunaseraphim]

One wonders if this will impact the other current agencies. The current top agency formed out of xo. They even used (do they still, not sure) at least one of the same buildings (not the ones mentioned in the article). One wonders if the link between the old and the new will result in something else...

I don't think it's about the location, more the practices of the owners at these places. I personally don't buy the ''neighbor complaints'' being the main issue here.

It takes a specific type of person to run an "agency", they are all about smoke and mirrors, and collecting as much information possible about the girls and clients, some are very good at presenting the different girls they run as Indy, but they keep a phone list, but with calling apps they start pushing for you "to present yourself" so they can identify you even if you change the phone number.
They even call new Indy girls in their territory to harass them, and push them to up the rates to be less competitive, in the suburbs at least.
They push the girls to collect info about you, most of the time it's paranoia that you might be LE, they also love to know your MERB handle to harass you if you leave a negative review.
I developed a system to screen for real Indy girls. But I still fell for pretend Indy few times.

Excuse me.. how can you tell that someone is a ''fake indy''? I don't think you should be spreading false information. There are agencies who do present their providers as ''indies'' on this website, but it's pretty obvious, and I'm curious why you think somebody is a fake indy because they ask for screening info..

I have never had anybody harass me to up my rates lol I've been bullied by other providers, but I don't understand what you're talking about. I don't personally want to see clients who use calling apps because it could be someone who assaulted me in the past trying to reach me with a new number.

 

[hankiepankie]

This thing is really freaking me out. It really makes you realize that when booking with an agency, you depend on them acting ethically.

We know very little so far and when more info becomes public, there might be a lot of pressure on the police to go after clients if details are bad enough. Like others have said, everyone who has ever booked with XO has their number in a police file that could be made public eventually.

 

[boboi]

Excuse me.. how can you tell that someone is a ''fake indy''? I don't think you should be spreading false information. There are agencies who do present their providers as ''indies'' on this website, but it's pretty obvious, and I'm curious why you think somebody is a fake indy because they ask for screening info..

Not talking about MERB indys, more about LL and LE adds where the add seems Indy, but it's not.

 

[Lunaseraphim]

Not talking about MERB indys, more about LL and LE adds where the add seems Indy, but it's not.

Oh.. you're not talking about agencies here, but rather pimps who have several girls working under them..

 

[boboi]

Oh.. you're not talking about agencies here, but rather pimps who have several girls working under them..

Yup, I was trying to be subtle cause merbits get very defensive when you talk about the real underbelly of the industry.

 

[observer29]

So we all read the la press article this morning and are taking an extended break?

Multiple users have been threatened by owners of agency's. Its a sketchy business and theres real risks to participating in it. I was kind of shocked at the split xo was taking. I thought 40-50 on a booking of 240-280 was what it was. I can see why law enforcement gets involved when it becomes predatory, financially and otherwise.

I had an agency make a mistake with a booking before, and to make it up thats roughly the amount I was credited.

Personally, it seems like outcall is the safer option if you have the ability to host. Law enforcement only acted when there were repeated complaints from people in the condo.

 

[TheJames101]

I don't think it's about the location, more the practices of the owners at these places. I personally don't buy the ''neighbor complaints'' being the main issue here.

Me neither - but it would presumably be quite easy for the police to take down any current agency that has past connections to XO... past employees, bookers, etc working for the current agency... no matter how apparently "virtuous" the new agency claims to be...

 

[Lunaseraphim]

That is the real issue here. There are pimps that are exploitative and coercive, there are employers who have different ways of dealing with their employees, and there are people who technically ''benefit from the work of sex workers''. According to the law they are all the same, and that is a real problem for us. Some employers act like pimps for sure, but not all of them do. Also I know providers who hired drivers and assistants to work for them. THEY made the choice to hire them, the drivers and assistants were employers. However, there are people who disguise themselves as assistants and act like pimps, taking a huge cuts and pressuring women to do things they don't want to do in order to make the most money. If I had a boyfriend and lived with him and I took home groceries, he would be technically be seen as a pimp by the law.. However, it's more common than you think in dynamics of domestic violence for husbands and boyfriends to pimp out their wife or girlfriend, even if these men don't see themselves as pimps. These laws hurt us and they hurt clients because there are no nuances and there is no context.

Me neither - but it would presumably be quite easy for the police to take down any current agency that has past connections to XO... past employees, bookers, etc working for the current agency... no matter how apparently "virtuous" the new agency claims to be...

I don't think employees will be targeted, but bosses and bookers could be, and they are clearly identified in the article. Personally what I've heard is that the police has been investigating this specific agency for YEARS before it was taken down. I know of other establishments that have had abusive policies for a long time. For instance, there is a massage parlor that recruits girls on sugaring websites. They find very young naive girls and don't really explain to them what will be happening at the parlor. An acquaintance of mine didn't know what she was getting herself into, she thought she would be ''sugaring by the hour'' meaning chit chatting with older men. She was raped by her boss when she arrived there because he wanted to ''try her''. This happened before the pandemic and that place still exists.

However, I do think there are differences in how all of these establishments are run. I know women who worked at agencies a while ago in Montreal, or in other cities, and had an okay time. I worked at 3 different spas and the management was completely different in every place. In 2 of these places, we were pretty much free to come work whenever we wanted, and we were allowed to refuse seeing a client if we didn't have a good experience with him before.

 

[hob12]

The complaint from the girl from Toronto was clearly where it started. Kinda comforts me that I never did business with XO. I always had a feeling about them and it was validated by discussing with girls who switched away from XO to other agencies.

I might take a hiatus myself after this though. I've been thinking about that lately and this might push me over the edge.

 

[clemieux6]

Fucked up story imo

From a legal standpoint, the evidentiary burden in cases involving alleged procurement of sexual services is often more complex than it may initially appear. In particular, for individuals who may have contacted service providers in the past, establishing that a transaction constituted payment specifically for sexual services can be challenging.

For instance, a communication such as “I’d like to book [Name] at this time” is, in itself, ambiguous and does not definitively establish that the intent was to purchase sexual services. In the absence of explicit language or corroborating evidence, such a statement could reasonably be interpreted as arranging for companionship or non-sexual services. A defense argument could assert that the client paid for time, conversation, or companionship, particularly if there is no direct evidence of a sexual act having taken place.

In such cases, the onus would fall on law enforcement such as the (SPVM) to substantiate the allegation with additional evidence. This could include witness testimony from the service provider, financial records clearly indicating the nature of the transaction, or other forms of corroboration. Without such evidence, prosecutions may face significant hurdles.

It is also worth noting that investigations of this nature can become resource intensive and protracted, particularly when attempting to establish individual culpability across a large number of potential clients. As a result, law enforcement agencies may prioritize efforts toward dismantling organized networks, especially those involved in the exploitation or trafficking of minors, where the legal and moral imperatives are considerably more urgent.

My two cents

 

[CheekieMonkey]

How can you tell if other agencies (Euphoria, Forever, Socia) are any different than how XO was?

 

[hobbyvil]

No, from what I gather, the chances of the police reaching out to piles of phone numbers where the usual texts go something like :"hi I'd like to book so and so at 5pm if possible". "ok, booked, thanks". And so on... would not be something they would do. But I wonder how many different clients a place like xo realistically had, over the course of a year, for example.

If I was a frequent client of xo - one of the monthly/weekly guys, I might be sweating a bit this morning.

maybe you are right.... but all it takes is one over zealous cop to start making calls. Also, perhaps the typical booking text message does not prove the appointement took place unless you texted back with comments after the meeting which am sure happens.... So yes, if you are a regular from that place and texted comments back and took part in their orgies.... you might be nervous this morning...

 

[Alicemay]

All agencies take this much of a cut

Sometimes more

 

[Georgy07]

Why dont we just legalize at this point?

 

[McL0vin]

I used to go often to xo circa 2019-2020 to see an SP I like a lot. She had switched to Euphoria then indy. She said both agencies were terrible to her.

 

[TheJames101]

I used to go often to xo circa 2019-2020 to see an SP I like a lot. She had switched to Euphoria then indy. She said both agencies were terrible to her.

Maybe it's the same one, who knows.... but there was one that would bounce back and forth. Lots of drama, it seemed.

 

[LC18]

For years, indies have tried to tell you that agencies arent all good. We kept telling you that you don't know everything that goes behind doors but some of you have kept praising them. I cannot say that all agencies run this way but I don't think XO was the exception otherwise, no one would have wanted to work there...

 

[McL0vin]

For years, indies have tried to tell you that agencies arent all good. We kept telling you that you don't know everything that goes behind doors but some of you have kept praising them. I cannot say that all agencies run this way but I don't think XO was the exception otherwise, no one would have wanted to work there...

Indys have changed my perception on a lot in the industry. The girls just seemed to be so happy at XO.

 

[Lunaseraphim]

Fucked up story imo

From a legal standpoint, the evidentiary burden in cases involving alleged procurement of sexual services is often more complex than it may initially appear. In particular, for individuals who may have contacted service providers in the past, establishing that a transaction constituted payment specifically for sexual services can be challenging.

For instance, a communication such as “I’d like to book [Name] at this time” is, in itself, ambiguous and does not definitively establish that the intent was to purchase sexual services. In the absence of explicit language or corroborating evidence, such a statement could reasonably be interpreted as arranging for companionship or non-sexual services. A defense argument could assert that the client paid for time, conversation, or companionship, particularly if there is no direct evidence of a sexual act having taken place.

In such cases, the onus would fall on law enforcement such as the (SPVM) to substantiate the allegation with additional evidence. This could include witness testimony from the service provider, financial records clearly indicating the nature of the transaction, or other forms of corroboration. Without such evidence, prosecutions may face significant hurdles.

It is also worth noting that investigations of this nature can become resource intensive and protracted, particularly when attempting to establish individual culpability across a large number of potential clients. As a result, law enforcement agencies may prioritize efforts toward dismantling organized networks, especially those involved in the exploitation or trafficking of minors, where the legal and moral imperatives are considerably more urgent.

My two cents

This.

Now I wish we could all have some thoughts for girls who were abused and assaulted and coerced in these work environments... none of us will be impacted by this. A lot of these girls are still working elsewhere and still have the trauma of whatever happened when they were at these places. It's not hard to understand that an optimal service can't be given under these circumstances..