Are agency dates discreet/private?

[jabbee]

Well at least you seem to have narrowed down your options to your preferred choice.

Please indulge in a little question, if I may ...

When you go to work, how many people do you feel are noticing or watching you?
When you go to meet your accountant for your income taxes, same question?
When you go meet a SW, same question, how do you feel in this case?
Of course this is very subjective but I'm sure you understand the nuance.

Chill out bro and enjoy the privileged moment you are offered.

"If you don't have anything to hide why are you so against institutionalized surveillance" type of comment

Let me indulge in a few responses if I may:
- I work remote
- I don't meet my accountant
- I take any necessary measures to not offer myself to cameras or people - often just means I'll go by car and only meet after 9-10pm

 

[jabbee]

I wouldn't have seen this comment had Mike not replied since I have you on mute (you should try it, stop torturing yourself and mute me already baby boo <3).

I don't know how you came to the conclusion that I hate my clients because I call a pimp a pimp - can you explain the thought process in details? Not that I'm likely to read your reply since, again, you're muted on my end, but it's a good thought exercise.

I wonder if you'd find it acceptable that someone else call you and your colleagues any of the many pejorative words for an SP, because a _ is a _...

We have a saying in French for that... c'est l'hopital qui se fout de la charité lol

 

[Lunaseraphim]

I wonder if you'd find it acceptable that someone else call you and your colleagues any of the many pejorative words for an SP, because a _ is a _...

We have a saying in French for that... c'est l'hopital qui se fout de la charité lol

I don't think Julia is talking about clients, you shouldn't be taking it personally. She's talking about workplace environments where some SPs possibly work in exploitative conditions. There's a reason why some of us are indies. That doesn't mean a client who is seeing a girl at an agency is a bad person. It's not about you

 

[talkinghead]

I'd say we should be careful about using demeaning language or making assumptions about anyone in the business. I've known some SPs who prefer to work for agencies; they don't have to maintain a website or post ads, can keep a low profile, and sometimes have full-time jobs. Obviously some agencies are better than others in terms of respecting their SPs. And unfortunately I've known indies who are in exploitative situations; as LL has repeatedly shown, being an "indy" doesn't necessarily mean autonomy or good working conditions.

 

[Lunaseraphim]

I'd say we should be careful about using demeaning language or making assumptions about anyone in the business. I've known some SPs who prefer to work for agencies; they don't have to maintain a website or post ads, can keep a low profile, and sometimes have full-time jobs. Obviously some agencies are better than others in terms of respecting their SPs. And unfortunately I've known indies who are in exploitative situations; as LL has repeatedly shown, being an "indy" doesn't necessarily mean autonomy or good working conditions.

You're 100% right, a lot of SPs prefer to work for agencies or spas for various reasons and I think their choice should be respected.. Indies who are being exploited by someone are not really indies.. However yes it's true that even if we work for ourselves as indies we don't necessarily have autonomy and good working conditions. But let's not lie to ourselves here.. Employers are taking a huge cut at agencies and there are things that go on in these workplace environments that are unsavory, sometimes girls are pressured to do certain things too.. I'm not going to elaborate but a lot of friends have confided things about spas and agencies that I absolutely don't want to share here.

I've never worked for an agency and I imagine some are better to work for than others, same thing with spas When I worked for the spa I worked at the longest, I got paid very little but I was not forced to do GFE for barely anything more, for instance. The working conditions were not always fun, but the boss I had, who is a man, never pressured me to do anything I didn't want to do. He is actually an easygoing person. I definitely have traumatic memories working there for various reasons but overall I feel like I had agency, I decided what my schedule was, how much I charged for extras, etc. It all depends.

There is an agency that advertises here who's manager reached out to me last year, and honestly they would be the agency I would choose to work for if I had to. I also really liked their responses to certain conflicts here. It's complicated, as you're saying. But as a mid-range indy, I have a lot of control over what is going on. It wasn't like this at first and there was an important learning curve particularly in the last 2 years, but I get to keep my wages, no one is telling me what to do, I get to create an image that attracts the clients I want and it works.. I don't have to see several clients in a row, which can be really difficult physically and mentally. I can offer a better service.

 

[Enjoying life]

But another woman knowing this "information" is fine...?? I don't understand. This is a business transaction why are you so uncomfortable at the thought of a male agency owner knowing youre meeting with one of the agency girls? What makes it okay if she's a female agency owner?

It feels like you think being a client is emasculating and you're intimidated by the idea of another man knowing you do this. It's a little irrational regardless of the thought process in my opinion. I'm not trying to be judgemental I'm just genuinely puzzled and think you should ask yourself the right questions haha

I have nothing to hide with not being involved or cheating and I’m dealing with great sps

 

[CaptRenault]

...When I worked for the spa I worked at the longest, I got paid very little but I was not forced to do GFE for barely anything more, for instance. The working conditions were not always fun, but the boss I had, who is a man, never pressured me to do anything I didn't want to do. He is actually an easygoing person...

...There is an agency that advertises here who's manager reached out to me last year, and honestly they would be the agency I would choose to work for if I had to. I also really liked their responses to certain conflicts here...

Based on your experience working at a spa and your impressions of agencies, would you characterize all owners and employees of a sex business (agency, spa etc.) as "pimps," as Julia does? I don't think you would. You seem more level headed than that.

But Julia refers to all agency owners and employees as "pimps". She uses the word in a condescending manner and her clear implication is that she and her fellow indies are somehow a better class of sex worker than the poor little "exploited" girls who have to work for agencies.

It's similar to calling all or certain groups of sex workers "whores." I don't think we should do that either.

Also, as clients, we cannot ever really know for sure which sex workers have a pimp, a booker, a boyfriend, a husband, an assistant, a driver, a secretary or any kind of business associate. It's just as likely that an indy has a real pimp as an agency girl. So I don't call sex workers "whores" and their business associates "pimps."

 

[LC18]

Could be a boyfriend, a girlfriend, a friend, an agency. No one is telling you to stop going to agencies, no one is telling you that you’re a bad person for going…

 

[Lunaseraphim]

Based on your experience working at a spa and your impressions of agencies, would you characterize all owners and employees of a sex business (agency, spa etc.) as "pimps," as Julia does? I don't think you would. You seem more level headed than that.

But Julia refers to all agency owners and employees as "pimps". She uses the word in a condescending manner and her clear implication is that she and her fellow indies are somehow a better class of sex worker than the poor little "exploited" girls who have to work for agencies.

It's similar to calling all or certain groups of sex workers "whores." I don't think we should do that either.

Also, as clients, we cannot ever really know for sure which sex workers have a pimp, a booker, a boyfriend, a husband, an assistant, a driver, a secretary or any kind of business associate. It's just as likely that an indy has a real pimp as an agency girl. So I don't call sex workers "whores" and their business associates "pimps."

It's not about being level headed. It's just these people are by definition ''pimps'', just like the bookers. An assistant is not the same because the provider is hiring that person herself, same thing with a husband or boyfriend who is not exploiting her but just coexisting with her.. The word ''pimp'' is not derogatory like the word ''whore'' is. They are making money off our earnings. Are they all terrible people? No, probably not. Are they trafficking the providers and forcing them to work perhaps in exchange for nothing? No, probably not most of the time, but I've heard like I said unsavory stories.

Could be a boyfriend, a girlfriend, a friend, an agency. No one is telling you to stop going to agencies, no one is telling you that you’re a bad person for going…

Exactly. What Lena says. We are not trying to shame you for going to agencies.. Girls who work for agencies and spas obviously need respectful clients, and most of them choose to be there. This is just a reality check. You are not a bad person for going to an agency, what matters is how you are treating the provider and what you are writing about them online.

 

[jabbee]

View attachment 97210

Could be a boyfriend, a girlfriend, a friend, an agency. No one is telling you to stop going to agencies, no one is telling you that you’re a bad person for going…

It's funny I see everyone in here using terms like "girls" or "SPs" to I guess be as respectful as possible - I wonder what you think about the word above and if it offends you to be referred as such? If not, fair game to call agency employees (the staff I mean not the girls) pimps.

I mean no disrespect, just really curious. As my multiple posts outlined it, I prefer to see indies, and one of the reason I asked about women agency-owners/bookers is that it makes me a bit more comfortable than a guy sending a girl to a client (that + I don't want to communicate with guys on anything regarding that hobby).

 

[Lunaseraphim]

View attachment 97212
It's funny I see everyone in here using terms like "girls" or "SPs" to I guess be as respectful as possible - I wonder what you think about the word above and if it offends you to be referred as such? If not, fair game to call agency employees (the staff I mean not the girls) pimps.

I mean no disrespect, just really curious. As my multiple posts outlined it, I prefer to see indies, and one of the reason I asked about women agency-owners/bookers is that it makes me a bit more comfortable than a guy sending a girl to a client (that + I don't want to communicate with guys on anything regarding that hobby).

I don't really have an issue with the word prostitute honestly. We are engaging in prostitution. Whore is a slur, prostitute is not.

However think about this : I'm not taking advantage of anyone personally and my conscience is clear.

If I met a young girl and taught her the ropes and became her booker and made her see clients and took a cut of her earnings and had rules for her like she has to provide GFE has to be nice even to awful clients etc I would be a pimp. And this is something I'd never do because I feel like this would be like taking advantage of her and taking away her agency. I don't want to make money off someone else doing this work.

By the way personally I don't refer to agency owners etc as pimps personally, I would rather say employer because it's better for everyone involved.. but they still fit the definition. And yes a lot of providers find it more convenient to work for somebody, for various reasons.

This conversation is strange to me because no employers are present yet ppl are taking this so personally. As I said we are not trying to shame anyone for going to spas and agencies.

Also No I don't think all employers are bad..

 

[Enjoying life]

I don't really have an issue with the word prostitute honestly. We are engaging in prostitution. Whore is a slur, prostitute is not.

However think about this : I'm not taking advantage of anyone personally and my conscience is clear.

If I picked a young girl and taught her the ropes and became her booker and made her see clients and took a cut of her earnings and had rules for her like she has to provide GFE etc I would be a pimp.

By the way personally I don't refer to agency owners etc as pimps personally, I would rather say employer because it's better for everyone involved.. but they still fit the definition.

It’s amazing company to share a Bit of yourself and engage in amazing fun with a great escape from reality to sum it up!

 

[Lunaseraphim]

There are different ways of looking at this. I definitely feel like it could be possible for an agency or spa owner to be really good to their employees but it depends on how much profit they want to make and what rules are in place to keep the workers safe and comfortable.

But let's be real. In a capitalist system, all employers exploit their worker to a degree, that's just how it works. It's not just in this industry. If you go to a fancy restaurant you probably had a meal cooked by a chef under pressure on a lot of coke who's getting screamed at in the kitchen. The system makes it hard for people to work for themselves. I'd rather go back to work at a MP than work at mcdonald's let's just put it that way. It's a bit hypocritical and weird to say something about agency owners but not talk about the owners of large companies that are destroying the planet and using child labor in other countries...

 

[Lunaseraphim]

It’s amazing company to share a Bit of yourself and engage in amazing fun with a great escape from reality to sum it up!

Yes exactly just be nice to the providers you see and there won't be a problem

 

[LC18]

View attachment 97212
It's funny I see everyone in here using terms like "girls" or "SPs" to I guess be as respectful as possible - I wonder what you think about the word above and if it offends you to be referred as such? If not, fair game to call agency employees (the staff I mean not the girls) pimps.

I mean no disrespect, just really curious. As my multiple posts outlined it, I prefer to see indies, and one of the reason I asked about women agency-owners/bookers is that it makes me a bit more comfortable than a guy sending a girl to a client (that + I don't want to communicate with guys on anything regarding that hobby).

Go ahead, no one is stopping you. Send a message to the Indy you want to see and call her a prostitute. Let’s see if she’s going to accept to see you ❤️

 

[Julia Sky]

She uses the word in a condescending manner and her clear implication is that she and her fellow indies are somehow a better class of sex worker than the poor little "exploited" girls who have to work for agencies.

I quite literally said several times on this board that pimp was just a neutral noun and that it could be accompanied with different adjectives.

If anything you are projecting your own bias and your own negative vision of the word pimp onto me. To anyone who has no issue with the word being used in its neutral form, without adjective, my comment doesn't across as condescending - it does to you because YOU think pimp means violent abuser in 100% of the cases. Those are different concepts entirely, both morally and even legally sometimes. The nicest of agency owners is still a pimp by definition.

I have absolutely nothing against colleagues who work in agencies and I've done duos with a few of them, even. I am not better than any other escort and I don't even understand how you draw that conclusion from me using the word pimp. Are you really so thick that after having had that discussion several times you still don't understand that your vision of the word pimp differs from mine? Let it go it's giving senile

 

[jabbee]

Go ahead, no one is stopping you. Send a message to the Indy you want to see and call her a prostitute. Let’s see if she’s going to accept to see you ❤️

Personally I wouldn't do that as it's distasteful but I wouldn't think someone who calls agency staff in general "pimps" would object to calling SPs "prostitutes". I mean both are equivalently, neutrally defined words.
But your answer (or lack thereof) is telling about the double standard you hold.

 

[Lunaseraphim]

Personally I wouldn't do that as it's distasteful but I wouldn't think someone who calls agency staff in general "pimps" would object to calling SPs "prostitutes". I mean both are equivalently, neutrally defined words.
But your answer (or lack thereof) is telling about the double standard you hold.

It seems like a lot of people have trouble with the concept of power dynamics. None of us would call the staff pimps if we were working for a spa or an agency, either. We are just saying that's what they are, technically. Within power dynamic there is someone who has more power and is able to control and benefit from the other. It's not really hard to understand. You can't compare people who make money off other people's prostitution with SP. You don't have to put pimp and prostitute in quotes because those are real words in the dictionary. Pimp doesn't necessarily mean a human trafficker who is taking all the money of a sex worker and holding her hostage.

Legally if I had a boyfriend or a girlfriend and I was living with that person, they could be considered my pimp if I bought food for us with money I made as a SP. Now, I don't think that's exploitation, but some people have no qualms with demanding money and gifts from sex workers in interpersonal relationships.

 

[jabbee]

It seems like a lot of people have trouble with the concept of power dynamics. None of us would call the staff pimps if we were working for a spa or an agency, either. We are just saying that's what they are, technically. Within power dynamic there is someone who has more power and is able to control and benefit from the other. It's not really hard to understand. You can't compare people who make money off other people's prostitution with SP. You don't have to put pimp and prostitute in quotes because those are real words in the dictionary. Pimp doesn't necessarily mean a human trafficker who is taking all the money of a sex worker and holding her hostage.

Legally if I had a boyfriend or a girlfriend and I was living with that person, they could be considered my pimp if I bought food for us with money I made as a SP. Now, I don't think that's exploitation, but some people have no qualms with demanding money and gifts from sex workers in interpersonal relationships.

I don't see what power dynamics have to do here. I'm a distant independent observer saying the pimp and prostitute words have the same connotation. They are neutral well-defined words (not like other slurs) but can be found distasteful or pejorative when describing a whole group of people as such.

You are intellectually consistent, and said you see no problem with the word pimp nor the word prostitute as they are dictionnary words that have a meaning and shouldn't be taken pejoratively.

I'm intellectually consistent, saying I wouldn't qualify all agency staffers as pimps nor all SPs as prostitutes as I find the words a bit more on the pejorative side.

LC here is (at least would be if I interpret her comment) offended by being called a prostitute but says pimp is just a neutral dictionnary word. That's not intellectually consistent.

 

[Lunaseraphim]

I don't see what power dynamics have to do here. I'm a distant independent observer saying the pimp and prostitute words have the same connotation. They are neutral well-defined words (not like other slurs) but can be found distasteful or pejorative when describing a whole group of people as such.

You are intellectually consistent, and said you see no problem with the word pimp nor the word prostitute as they are dictionnary words that have a meaning and shouldn't be taken pejoratively.

I'm intellectually consistent, saying I wouldn't qualify all agency staffers as pimps nor all SPs as prostitutes as I find the words a bit more on the pejorative side.

LC here is (at least would be if I interpret her comment) offended by being called a prostitute but says pimp is just a neutral dictionnary word. That's not intellectually consistent.

You misspelled the word dictionary.

There's an explanation. These words are not slurs per se but they have certain negative connotations and associations, although neutral in many ways.

I told you that although I consider that technically these employers are pimps, I would never call a spa or agency owner a pimp to their face because they wouldn't take it well. When you think of the word pimp you're thinking of someone violent who is coercing a woman into sexual activities and taking all her money. In fact as we know women choose to work for agencies, maybe having all the information they need about the establishment maybe not, and they definitely get to keep a lot of the money. They are not forced to keep working there.

I am not offended by being called a prostitute or considering myself a prostitute but if a client reached out and called me that, I would feel uncomfortable too because the word conjures certain images in my mind.

What I'm saying is that you should not be making a comparison between an "unpleasant" word describing a sex worker who's just trying to make a living and another one describing someone who is a sex worker's boss who is making money off her doing GFE service for 5 men in a row and who might fire her if she refuses to provide an expected service to a client or if she receives bad reviews.

Why do I have to explain this? It's not really hard to understand. The root of the issue to me is that there is a misunderstanding behind our intention. We aren't trying to accuse employers or clients of agencies, or shame anyone.