This is the abolitionist viewpoint that women are Victims. No matter what. They cannot consent when there is exchange of money. It’s very black in white in a New Religion way
Euphoria agency in the news
- Thread starter ktm
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You can also be a victim of violence within the industry, without being an overall victim just because you're a sex worker. Two things can be true. You can consent to certain things, and have your consent taken away by certain individuals. You can also end up doing things you didn't want to do and see clients you didn't want to see due to economic pressure, which makes consent a little bit weird. But that doesn't men women in this industry are victims because they choose to get paid for intimacy. There's a way for it to be consensual at all times.
You consent working for an agency, but you didn't consent for guy to anally rape you, like what happened to one of the girls in the documentary and honestly has happened to me and multiple others in this industry as well. But that doesn't mean the industry needs to be abolished, it just means that it needs to change and that we need to push for decriminalization for better working conditions and more safety and satisfaction on the client side.
Frédéric Martineau, commandant de la section exploitation sexuelle à la SPVM, vient de nous informer à la télévision qu'ils visent les mineurs et victimes d'exploitation sexuelle, mais que maintenant ils élargissent leurs interventions au niveau des agences grâce à un meilleur financement. Ce n'est pas fini.
Did I say otherwise? Yes you can be a victim of violence everywhere, but this industry includes intimacy and a lot of secrecy. That's pretty easy to understand. Once again I want to mention that not all or even most clients are violent.. but some are.
I deleted my answer because it was beside the point. My point was for certain people women cannot consent sex in exchange for money. That is not my viewpoint.
Yeah I know these people exist, and I disagree with them.. My point was just that you can express that you've been victim of bad treatments in the industry without holding that viewpoint, or without implying that you are a victim because you exchanged money for sex to begin with.
Saying you have or had bad experiences in the industry doesn't mean you're an abolitionist who thinks everyone had the same experiences as you.
I personally know people who entered this industry as minors, were trafficked, were groomed and pimped etc. These things actually do exist. The problem is when everything is put together without any clear distinctions and without nuances.
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If anyone knows where Charlie ends up, please let me know. She is #1 on my TDL
In short - you do not through out the whole barrel if it has only few bad apples
My point is unspoken, kinda pointing out these journalist Phds coming from government funded institutions and working for government funded CBC Radio Canada are basically government agents "infiltrating" under the disguise of journalists. They might as well be police detectives. Dunno but it reeks of some slow incremental government agenda intervention process especially after similar articles exposing XO.
It's more complicated than that. I think there are different ''spaces'' in this industry and different practices, different client bases.. Depending on where you work, how you work and who you are, what clients perceive you as, you will have a different experience in the industry. I think that's part of what people need to be mindful of. If you are a naive 19 year old on leolist you won't have the same experiences as a 30 year old high end escort who travels all over the world. I don't have the same experiences as a mid-range indy who has the ability and privilege to tour, vs when I work at a massage parlor where the client base and services offered are completely different.
I had a very different experience when I entered this industry than I do now. When you appear vulnerable or young or both, you don't attract the best clients. I think because you probably are a good client, and you probably exchange with others who have similar experiences as you, you're assuming that bad experiences are rare..
Bad experiences need to be talked about so that they don't happen again or not as much. Same with certain working conditions, for instance, people mentioned that having only a 15 minute break between clients can create a hygiene and cleanliness issue. That is something that could be changed. Better screening of clients and better education would also be great.. more solidarity fostered between the workers too.
I am sure the journalist who did this story is reading the board today and probably enjoy reading us. Kinda like throwing a rock in a fishpound and all the fishes start to panic and move all over the place.
While this will not kill the oldest profession in the world, it certainly will lead to changes and adaptation and these are rarely for the best.
I know they will never show the other side and all the good this business does for both providers and clients. For that tough we can be grateful to the Sonia Von Sacher of this world and such.
While this will not kill the oldest profession in the world, it certainly will lead to changes and adaptation and these are rarely for the best.
I know they will never show the other side and all the good this business does for both providers and clients. For that tough we can be grateful to the Sonia Von Sacher of this world and such.
He probably gave himself a good congratulatory hand job while watchin pornhub after the diffusion of his investigation...
I read the article on the Radio Canada site, watched the episode of "Enquete" (using VPN to connect from the USA) and read most of the comments in this thread. I also followed the story in La Presse of the shutdown of XO (thread about it is here).
The girl who goes by the name "Clementine" is the obvious link between the two stories. She seems to be on a one-woman mission to shut down the sex business in Montreal. Which agency will be her next target? Every hack reporter of crime and vice news in Montreal must have her number on speed dial, hoping that she favors them with some inside info about the business and so helps them boost their careers as crack "investigative journalists."
Part of my comment on the La Presse article about the shutdown of XO is worth repeating:
"...Of course, it is possible that this is the beginning of the end for escort agencies in Montreal...As I and others have noted, the laws to put an end to agencies have been on the books for years and it's just a question of enforcing them. However, to paraphrase Mark Twain, I think the reports of the demise of agencies have been greatly exaggerated. Based on what we know so far, this is an isolated case of one agency becoming very complacent and fucking up... XO alienated the tenants of the residential buildings that it used as it places of business. I have always been surprised that the main incall agencies got away with this practice for such a long time. Since I am a visitor to Montreal and I always use my hotel room as a rendezvous site, I have never used an agency that mainly does incalls. I understand the advantages of incalls but I never liked the idea of sneaking around in residential areas and buildings. It's kind of amazing that the incall business model didn't cause a big problem sooner than now...The sensational accusations of the purported "survivors" are not proof of anything yet. As I have clearly stated before, I do not subscribe to the "believe all women" school of thought."
Maybe the most interesting part of the current Euphoria story is the news about the well-known eye surgeon acting as a "recruiter" for Euphoria. Though he seems like a weird guy with some unusual fantasies who got way too close to the agency and its owners, it's not clear how he was recruiting girls for Euphoria. I guess he was trying out girls from other agencies and suggesting to them that they should switch to Euphoria. That's not exactly a crime, but we'll see if any charges are filed against him. Of course, in the USA he could get charged and convicted of "sex trafficking" and sent to prison for 20 years. Canada has not yet experienced a moral panic about "sex trafficking" in the same manner as the US but it could happen-stay tuned.
The girl who goes by the name "Clementine" is the obvious link between the two stories. She seems to be on a one-woman mission to shut down the sex business in Montreal. Which agency will be her next target? Every hack reporter of crime and vice news in Montreal must have her number on speed dial, hoping that she favors them with some inside info about the business and so helps them boost their careers as crack "investigative journalists."
Part of my comment on the La Presse article about the shutdown of XO is worth repeating:
"...Of course, it is possible that this is the beginning of the end for escort agencies in Montreal...As I and others have noted, the laws to put an end to agencies have been on the books for years and it's just a question of enforcing them. However, to paraphrase Mark Twain, I think the reports of the demise of agencies have been greatly exaggerated. Based on what we know so far, this is an isolated case of one agency becoming very complacent and fucking up... XO alienated the tenants of the residential buildings that it used as it places of business. I have always been surprised that the main incall agencies got away with this practice for such a long time. Since I am a visitor to Montreal and I always use my hotel room as a rendezvous site, I have never used an agency that mainly does incalls. I understand the advantages of incalls but I never liked the idea of sneaking around in residential areas and buildings. It's kind of amazing that the incall business model didn't cause a big problem sooner than now...The sensational accusations of the purported "survivors" are not proof of anything yet. As I have clearly stated before, I do not subscribe to the "believe all women" school of thought."
Maybe the most interesting part of the current Euphoria story is the news about the well-known eye surgeon acting as a "recruiter" for Euphoria. Though he seems like a weird guy with some unusual fantasies who got way too close to the agency and its owners, it's not clear how he was recruiting girls for Euphoria. I guess he was trying out girls from other agencies and suggesting to them that they should switch to Euphoria. That's not exactly a crime, but we'll see if any charges are filed against him. Of course, in the USA he could get charged and convicted of "sex trafficking" and sent to prison for 20 years. Canada has not yet experienced a moral panic about "sex trafficking" in the same manner as the US but it could happen-stay tuned.
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