Nice la Presse Article on XO this morning

[EagerBeaver]

To be fair, it's probably the biggest news in the hobby in a decade or more - and untold numbers of members here are in some way implicated.

Very true

 

[LC18]

Can we be transparent please...any big business regardless of industry can't grow beyond a certain size while being ethical to everyone's standards.
There's a reason why new girls prefer working for an agency, some bad (no need to repeat), some good (they need the structure).
Indys are operating under the De Beers diamond model, and fight to maintain that model... because they were making similar "shaming" comments on the SugarDaddy thread.
No, paying 1000$ an hour doesn't guarantee ethics.

Ok and? Because there’s exploitation in other industries it should be accepted in an industry based on something that intimate?

We’re not talking about people mopping floors, placing cans or cutting hair. We’re talking about people having sex.

If my employer forced me to mop 2-3 more rooms after an already long day of work, I would be mad but it wouldn’t be that bad.

Being forced to have sex with 2-3 more men after an already long day of work is absolutely disgusting and no one should experience that

It has been said in the thread that some girls have been forced to work from 9 am until midnight

 

[skarsga]

Interesting takes here. I think it's not completely black and white.

This is a service industry. Making a client feel happy is good business and falls within the realm of professionalism. If a client is violent or disrespectful, having them ejected and banned similarly seems like it falls in the realm of good business and professionalism long term.

I go to a salon that rents chairs to stylists with a model that uses some penalties etc.
They rent chairs to good stylists and cover the facility, advertising, scheduling etc. In return, they take their cut. Fair trade, good thriving business, everybody is happy.

The fact that there are penalties for truancy and running late is not surprising, new or to me the real problem. Time is money - for everyone.

If a woman makes a commitment to be on the roster, the agency is budgeting an incall space or driver for her. If she cancels last minute and cannot prove an emergency, I don't think it's unreasonable to apply a penalty.

The draconian implementation, coercion, and severity in this case with xo is what is damning.
If that is industry standard, I'm appalled.

Any of the other top agencies following this thread that would chime in? There is a lot of implied and hearsay crimes being laid at your door.

 

[EagerBeaver]

Hey EB, hope you’re doing well!

Just to clarify; that party actually took place in late November 2016. It was held in a nice two-story loft in Griffintown, so it’s not related to the location mentioned in the La Presse article.

Pat, thanks for the correction. My memory is not so good. I think I was confusing that XO party with a Montreal Girlfriends party that was held in a condo on St. Antoine in 2009 or 2010. You are correct that the XO party was in Griffintown. And I am sure you are right on the month and year. At this point all the parties are sort of a blur in my head. I do remember the Eleganza party was held on September 15, 2007 at a restaurant in downtown Montreal. For a 10 year span I went to so many parties and now they are a blur.

 

[LC18]

i know of at least 1 high end MP that still does that. They make the girls pay if they are late.

Which is why I side eye people when they say “I knew agencies were problematic that’s why I only go to massage parlours”

 

[LC18]

Wait so they have 15 mins between calls but I know very well some of you will try to stay an extra 5 mins for free which means she now only has 10 mins to shower, change the sheets, empty the trash and clean the glasses you’ve used. As a result, she will have to contact the booker to say she needs more time and will be charged a late fee. I know it happens because I’ve also read that in reviews “I got there on time but had to wait 10 mins in my car”

Or she just won’t shower to save time

The more I think about it, the worse it gets tbh

 

[Rabbits]

I had to translate the whole article because I don’t speak French. Based on some facts, girls paying 50 if late, 100 if cancel, 80 cut per client and another 80 if they cancel and a client was booked.

Many were booked back to back with no break or very little break.

I’m sure we all crossed many complaints along the lines of:
“She was a time watcher she kicked me out before”
“the alarm went off x minutes before the appointment”
“She was cold and mechanical”
“She looked tired/sad and doesn’t want me there”

Can we really blame the girls. With no break, let’s say your appointment was 5-6pm and the next guy is 6-7pm. She has no time to change the sheet, take a shower so that will be on your time unless you don’t mind being intimate on dirty sheets and a girl who didn’t shower. If she was late for the next appointment, they fine her 50$. The agency already take 80$ per hour. How much she has left?

On a sick day, she would have be fined so much more based on how much clients booked her.

there have been cases of girls being coerced to long shift from 9am to midnight. I have seen clients complaining (this girl ) works too much and is money thirsty and don’t care about customer service. If your appointment that day was 6-7pm and she had 10 guys before you, how can she be welcoming, in a good mood etc…

Those bad reviews obviously affected the girls business but can we blame them? It was the management that should be called out.

If I remember correctly xo was one of the biggest incall agency in Montreal with over 50 girls on their line up and operating for approximately 10 years. Can we take a moment of thought to many ladies who were exploited in awful conditions. Xo was voted the best agency for many years, what a joke.

 

[hob12]

One of the reasons I never did business with XO is I read alot about how they didn't give breaks between clients so the girls would often tell you to stop around the 45m mark. I understand why but personally if I pay for an hour, I want my hour. Not saying I always stay the full time. I often leave with some minutes left on the clock.

 

[LC18]

One of the reasons I never did business with XO is I read alot about how they didn't give breaks between clients so the girls would often tell you to stop around the 45m mark. I understand why but personally if I pay for an hour, I want my hour. Not saying I always stay the full time. I often leave with some minutes left on the clock.

You didn’t know the real reason back then, you probably thought it was because girls were lazy. Now that you know that it was because they were avoiding needing to give almost half of their earnings to the owners, how do you feel about it?

 

[Fradi]

Oh.. you're not talking about agencies here, but rather pimps who have several girls working under them..

To me all agencies are pimps.
They maybe a lot kinder pimps than the ones you saw in movies but pimps never the less.
They live off the proceeds of the women that work for them and I don’t believe any of them give a shit for their welfare it is all about money for them.

This is why I have never used an agency and never will plus what I also believed to be true and now proven that you are part of an assembly line and some of these ladies see even up to 10 or more clients a day.
I will never be part of this. I don’t mind paying more to see an Indy that I have known for years and consider a friend, no agency girl will ever come close to that.

 

[LeDodo]

You didn’t know the real reason back then, you probably thought it was because girls were lazy. Now that you know that it was because they were avoiding needing to give almost half of their earnings to the owners, how do you feel about it?

The level of stress it creates. And she couldn't tell you "sorry babe, go to the shower now so I don't lose 50$"

 

[interferon]

Also as far as I can see, most agencies have 15 min break in between sessions which is good for both parties involved.

given the nature of the work 15 minutes between sessions sounds totally inadequate but what do I know...

 

[Gazoo64]

The agency vs indy debate is a bit pointless. Bottom line its about price and convenience for the clients. With an agency you only have to nurture one relationship vs one with each indy who often ask things like references or pictures of IDs. Its a more complicated environment. Prices are also way out there in many cases.

I think it’s worth discussing agency vs Indies. We can have a healthy debate. When I started hobbying gears ago, I was only booking thru agencies.

In the past 1-2 years or so, I’ve been seeing mostly Indies. When the discussion comes up, the guys that favour the agencies will say: “why pay 400-500 when I can pay 270?”

If you’re just looking at it from a strictly sex point of view, maybe there is an argument. Depends what one is looking to get out of it.

At the end of the day, like anything else, you get what you pay for.

So with agencies, I’m not saying they’re all like what’s been described extensively in this article. But it’s quite revealing what goes on behind the scenes: Girls having only 15 minutes between clients, rushing, seeing multiple clients per day (5-12), underage girls, ruthless owner (referring to XO), etc.

With Indies, it’s a more relaxed setting. Some Indies only see one or max two clients per day.
So obviously the lady is more “fresh”, relaxed, present, etc. When I text an Indy, I can book pretty much anytime I want. Whereas when booking through agencies, you have to jump thru hoops, refresh the screen 100 times to have a chance to book a popular girl, etc.

Then because the Indies are low volume, repeat appointments create better chemistry, etc. I know some guys will say: “who cares about chemistry. I’m just there to have sex…”
To each their own.

So when somebody says - why pay more, it’s the same thing - it’s definitely not the same thing

Just my two cents.

 

[LeDodo]

Also as far as I can see, most agencies have 15 min break in between sessions which is good for both parties involved.

The client having 15 minutes less and the SP having only 15 minutes to cleanup everything.

I don't see the good in that.

 

[hob12]

You didn’t know the real reason back then, you probably thought it was because girls were lazy. Now that you know that it was because they were avoiding needing to give almost half of their earnings to the owners, how do you feel about it?

Avec égards et respect, tu n'es pas dans ma tête alors évitons les formules du genre "you probably thought X". La vérité c'est que en lisant les reviews je trouvais qu'ils avaient l'air mal organisés et cette pratique là en est un bon exemple.

I'm not exactly sure what you are referring to about giving half their income away. The % they have to give to the agency or the other fees? Im pretty aware of the former but some of those other fees do seem abusive yes and I didn't know about them at all.

 

[LeDodo]

I think it’s worth discussing agency vs Indies. We can have a healthy debate. When I started hobbying gears ago, I was only booking thru agencies.

In the past 1-2 years or so, I’ve been seeing mostly Indies. When the discussion comes up, the guys that favour the agencies will say: “why pay 400-500 when I can pay 270?”

If you’re just looking at it from a strictly sex point of view, maybe there is an argument. Depends what one is looking to get out of it.

At the end of the day, like anything else, you get what you pay for.

So with agencies, I’m not saying they’re all like what’s been described extensively in this article. But it’s quite revealing what goes on behind the scenes: Girls having only 15 minutes between clients, rushing, seeing multiple clients per day (5-12), underage girls, ruthless owner (referring to XO), etc.

With Indies, it’s a more relaxed setting. Some Indies only see one or max two clients per day.
So obviously the lady is more “fresh”, relaxed, present, etc. When I text an Indy, I can book pretty much anytime I want. Whereas when booking through agencies, you have to jump thru hoops, refresh the screen 100 times to have a chance to book a popular girl, etc.

Then because the Indies are low volume, repeat appointments create better chemistry, etc. I know some guys will say: “who cares about chemistry. I’m just there to have sex…”
To each their own.

So when somebody says - why pay more, it’s the same thing - it’s definitely not the same thing

Just my two cents.

This debate can be taken in another thread.

The article/investigation here is solely talking about an agency working conditions and against law and moral practices.

We're just missing discussions around OF if we go that way

 

[boboi]

No one said otherwise. Nobody here is saying that girls at agencies are not good providers or that all agencies operate under the same rules. That was one of my first comments. Once again this isn't an indies vs agency girls debate. Just don't be contemptuous. It's not necessary.

I have to be honest that I feel the same contempt from indys comments...

 

[LC18]

Avec égards et respect, tu n'es pas dans ma tête alors évitons les formules du genre "you probably thought X". La vérité c'est que en lisant les reviews je trouvais qu'ils avaient l'air mal organisés et cette pratique là en est un bon exemple.

I'm not exactly sure what you are referring to about giving half their income away. The % they have to give to the agency or the other fees? Im pretty aware of the former but some of those other fees do seem abusive yes and I didn't know about them at all.

C’est pour ça que j’ai dit “probablement” et pas “tu pensais définitivement”. Il y avait une probabilité que tu pensais ainsi et non une certitude.

80$+50$=130$
280/2=140$

Quand elles avaient du retard, les frais pour un client pouvaient monter à presque 50% de leurs revenus pour ce client là. C’est ce que je voulais dire

 

[Giselle Montreal]

Also as far as I can see, most agencies have 15 min break in between sessions which is good for both parties involved.

15 minutes is far from enough.

In most incalls shared with other independents, we allow 30 minutes and I don't find it enough most of the time. I still feel rushed sometimes and I don't even shower there as I prefer to shower at home. I am not surprised to read reviews for girls working in agencies along the lines of "I don't think the sheets were changed", "I wonder if she showered", "it felt rushed", "she didn't look happy at the beginning of the appointment", "the price of extras are getting out of hand", etc.

 

[CLOUD 500]

I had to translate the whole article because I don’t speak French. Based on some facts, girls paying 50 if late, 100 if cancel, 80 cut per client and another 80 if they cancel and a client was booked.

Many were booked back to back with no break or very little break.

I’m sure we all crossed many complaints along the lines of:
“She was a time watcher she kicked me out before”
“the alarm went off x minutes before the appointment”
“She was cold and mechanical”
“She looked tired/sad and doesn’t want me there”

Can we really blame the girls. With no break, let’s say your appointment was 5-6pm and the next guy is 6-7pm. She has no time to change the sheet, take a shower so that will be on your time unless you don’t mind being intimate on dirty sheets and a girl who didn’t shower. If she was late for the next appointment, they fine her 50$. The agency already take 80$ per hour. How much she has left?

On a sick day, she would have be fined so much more based on how much clients booked her.

there have been cases of girls being coerced to long shift from 9am to midnight. I have seen clients complaining (this girl ) works too much and is money thirsty and don’t care about customer service. If your appointment that day was 6-7pm and she had 10 guys before you, how can she be welcoming, in a good mood etc…

Those bad reviews obviously affected the girls business but can we blame them? It was the management that should be called out.

If I remember correctly xo was one of the biggest incall agency in Montreal with over 50 girls on their line up and operating for approximately 10 years. Can we take a moment of thought to many ladies who were exploited in awful conditions. Xo was voted the best agency for many years, what a joke.

The girls had a choice to leave. They were not prisoners. No one forced them to stay with XO. But they wanted the fast money so they stayed even if they hated it.